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Thread: Here we go again!

  1. #1

    Default Here we go again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Eric. If you tripped in the snow you would blame it on pesticides!!!
    Hi Jon

    Here we go again! Finger on right buttonthis time - I hope!
    Had to edit to send!
    Eric

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    CATCH THE BUZZ

    Press Release



    In the July issue of Bee Culture Magazine there appeared an article by Tom Theobald detailing the fallacy of clothianidin registration in the U.S. That story is below. This article instigated several investigations by various concerned groups. The following Press Release is one result.



    Heather Pilatic, Pesticide Action Network

    cell: 415.694.8596

    Jay Feldman, Beyond Pesticides

    202.543.5450, ext 15


    SAN FRANCISCO and WASHINGTON, D.C. – Beekeepers and environmentalists today called on EPA to remove a pesticide linked to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD), citing a leaked EPA memo that discloses a critically flawed scientific support study. The November 2nd memo identifies a core study underpinning the registration of the insecticide clothianidin as unsound after EPA quietly re-evaluated the pesticide just as it was getting ready to allow a further expansion of its use.

    Clothianidin (product name “Poncho”) has been widely used as a seed treatment on many of the country’s major crops for eight growing seasons under a “conditional registration” granted while EPA waited for Bayer Crop Science, the pesticide’s maker, to conduct a field study assessing the insecticide’s threat to bee colony health. Bayer’s field study was the contingency on which clothianidin’s conditional registration was granted in 2003. As such, the groups are calling for an immediate stop-use order on the pesticide while the science is redone, and redesigned in
    partnership with practicing beekeepers. They claim that the initial field study guidelines, which the Bayer study failed to satisfy, were insufficiently rigorous to test whether or not clothianidin contributes to CCD in a real-world scenario: the field test evaluated the wrong crop, over an insufficient time period and with inadequate controls.
    According to beekeeper Jeff Anderson, who has testified before EPA on the topic, “The Bayer study is fatally flawed. It was an open field study with control and test plots of about 2 acres each. Bees typically forage at least 2 miles out from the hive, so it is likely they didn’t ingest much of the treated crops. And corn, not canola, is the major pollen-producing crop that bees rely on for winter nutrition. This is a critical point because we see hive losses mainly after over-wintering, so there is something going on in these winter cycles. It’s as if they designed the study to avoid seeing clothianidin’s effects on hive health.”
    According to James Frazier, PhD., professor of entomology at Penn State’s College of Agricultural Sciences, "Among the neonicotinoids, clothianidin is among those most toxic for honey bees; and this combined with its systemic movement in plants has produced a troubling mix of scientific results pointing to its potential risk for honey bees through current agricultural practices. Our own research indicates that systemic pesticides occur in pollen and nectar in much greater quantities than has been previously thought, and that interactions among pesticides occurs often and should be of wide concern." Dr. Frazier said that the most prudent course of action would be to take the pesticide off the market while the flawed study is being redone.
    “We are losing more than a third of our colonies each winter; but beekeepers are a stubborn, industrious bunch. We split hives, rebound as much as we can each summer, and then just take it on the chin – eat our losses. So even these big loss numbers understate the problem,” says 50-year beekeeper, David Hackenberg. “What folks need to understand is that the beekeeping industry, which is responsible for a third of the food we all eat, is at a critical threshold for economic reasons and reasons to do with bee population dynamics. Our bees are living for 30 days instead of 42, nursing bees are having to forage because there aren’t enough foragers and at a certain point a colony just doesn’t have the critical mass to keep going. The bees are at that point, and we are at that point. We are losing our livelihoods at a time when there just isn’t other work. Another winter of ‘more studies are needed’ so Bayer can keep their blockbuster products on the market and EPA can avoid a difficult decision, is unacceptable.”
    "The environment has become the experiment and all of us – not just bees and beekeepers – have become the experimental subjects," said Tom Theobald, a 35-year beekeeper. "In an apparent rush to get products to the market, chemicals have been routinely granted "conditional" registrations. Of 94 pesticide active ingredients released since 1997, 70% have been given conditional registrations, with unanswered questions of unknown magnitude. In the case of clothianidin those questions were huge. The EPA's basic charge is "the prevention of unreasonable risk to man and the environment" and these practices hardly satisfy that obligation. We must do better, there is too much at stake."
    Tom
    I became concerned about clothianidin in 2007 as the possible cause of a break in the Fall brood cycle I was seeing in my bees and in early 2008 I began digging into the facts surrounding its approval. That story is instructive and cause for great concern I believe.

    The first record I found on the consideration of clothianidin comes in the form of an EPA memo dated February 23, 2003, titled 'Risk Assessment for Seed Treatment of Corn and Canola.' To their credit, EPA scientists raised serious concerns in that document and called for strong label language if clothianidin was to be approved for use. They cited the experience in France with imidacloprid as the basis for extreme caution and called for label language which would highlight the dangers. Quite responsibly, they called for a field test of the dangers prior to registration:
    'The possibility of toxic exposure to nontarget pollinators through the translocation of clothianidin residues that result from seed treatment (corn and canola) has prompted EFED [Environmental Fate and Effects Division] to require field testing that can evaluate the possible chronic exposure to honey bee larvae and queen. In order to fully evaluate the possibility of this toxic effect, a complete worker bee life cycle study must be conducted, as well as an evaluation of exposure and effects to the queen.' and they called for strong label language as well:

    This is the Deepwater Horizon in agriculture. America’s farmland is awash in these questionable chemicals as surely as the shorelines of the Gulf Coast are awash in crude oil, and for many of the same reasons.

    The bees are telling us something. We need to start listening before it’s too late.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Heather Pilatic, Pesticide Action Network
    aka Posh Spice!!

    And corn, not canola, is the major pollen-producing crop that bees rely on for winter nutrition.
    Do US bees really load up on corn pollen - a plant which is primarily wind pollinated.
    I have seen my own bees collecting pollen from sweetcorn but only very rarely.
    Maybe this happens if bees are surrounded by thousands of hectares of corn monoculture.

    Might be difficult to separate the negative effects of monoculture from the negative effects of pesticides.
    Isn't there published work which shows that having a restricted choice of pollen is not good for bees?

    I do agree that pesticides have to be strictly regulated and monitored.
    Last edited by Jon; 12-01-2011 at 06:29 PM. Reason: keep spelling pollinated wrong

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    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Isn't there published work which shows that having a restricted choice of pollen is not good for bees?
    The one I know of is a study by Professor Jacobs of the university of Gand. He had compared the nutritive values of different pollens , with the following results:

    Plant supplying pollen / Increase in life expectancy compared with bees fed only on honey

    Honey + 0.5 days
    Tomato + 5 days
    Dandelion +10.7 days
    Apple blossom +17.6 days
    Strawberry +28 days
    Mixed pollen + 27.5 days

    Rip up those fields of corn monoculture and plant strawberries

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    They says the bees always know best, but mine don't as they rarely go for the strawberry flowers. The bumbles like them though. Locally, the apple growers who rent a few colonies make sure the dandelion is cut back as it is in flower at the same time as the apple and the bees much prefer it. The pollen from Oil Seed Rape sems to be very attractive to bees as well. Linking back to pesticides, I have not noticed any problem with my bees between mid April and mid May when the OSR is in flower around here. (And I know about the Bayer seed drilling problem in Germany in 2008 before it gets posted again)
    In fact this is the time where I see the fastest rate of colony build up and massive amounts of pollen storage. Some years I have about 15-20 acres of OSR planted on a local farm within 400 yards of my bees
    I remember reading a study on pollen and surprisingly they did not always go for the pollen with the highest protein content and there is a huge difference in protein content between various pollens. Someone from SCRI will know more.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    We had a talk from Dave Goulson of Stirling University and the Bumblebee Conservation Trust on this topic. It is important in bumblebees too. Plants in the Fabaceae family (aka legumes, vetches, beans, clovers) are very nutritious. No self-respecting bumble bee would go near corn, but I did once find a pollen load from a bumble bees made up of grass pollen.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Carbofuran

    Eric
    I noticed this about buzzards being deliberately poisoned and thought you might be interested. This pesticide has been banned in the EU for over a year and is about to be banned in the US. Some miscreant in the highlands has kept a wee bottle and used it to kill a pair of buzzards in Strathspey Estate.

    The thing about pesticides is that none of them are good for birds and bees but some of them are an awful lot worse than others.
    Are the neonicotinoids really worse than the ones they are replacing?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-11958330

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbofuran

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009...an-by-2010.php

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Carbofuran

    Eric
    I noticed this about buzzards being deliberately poisoned and thought you might be interested. This pesticide has been banned in the EU for over a year and is about to be banned in the US. Some miscreant in the highlands has kept a wee bottle and used it to kill a pair of buzzards in Strathspey Estate.

    The thing about pesticides is that none of them are good for birds and bees but some of them are an awful lot worse than others.
    Are the neonicotinoids really worse than the ones they are replacing?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-11958330

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbofuran

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009...an-by-2010.php
    Hi

    THis recent book is worth a read! Not for the faint hearted or Mills etc fans.

    A remarkable book by Dutch Toxicologist Dr. Henk Tennekes has just been made available online at LULU.COM. It is called 'The Systemic Pesticides - A Disaster in the Making'.

    It describes the catastrophic collapse of the entire farmland ecosystem in parts of Holland due to the massive use of Neonicotinoid pesticides. Hennekes describes how blanket use of Nicotonoids in Holland has led to virtual extinction of many species of: insects, arthropods, bees, butterflies, beetles - on croplands, in the soil and in the streams, ditches and ponds near those farms. In turn, Tennekes records how the extermination of almost insect-food from the countryside has destroyed the base of the Food Pyramid, leading to catastrophic declines in the populations of insect-eating birds liek Skylarks, Warblers, Tree Sparrows and House Sparrows, Partridges. Tennekes report confirms what many beekeepers have suspected all along - namely that Systemic Nicotinoid insecticides have killed, and are continuing to kill: bees by the billion, and colonies by the millions.

    The book is available as an Ebook - download from the link below at a cost of just 10 Euros (£8 or $10). It is a serious ecological report rather than a book for general readers, but all ecologists, beekeepers and bird conservationists should read this description of the coming Ecological Apocalypse.

    VISIT:

    http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/th...ecticides-a-di...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    aka Posh Spice!!



    Do US bees really load up on corn pollen - a plant which is primarily wind pollinated.
    I have seen my own bees collecting pollen from sweetcorn but only very rarely.
    Maybe this happens if bees are surrounded by thousands of hectares of corn monoculture.

    Might be difficult to separate the negative effects of monoculture from the negative effects of pesticides.
    Isn't there published work which shows that having a restricted choice of pollen is not good for bees?

    I do agree that pesticides have to be strictly regulated and monitored.

    The Deepwater Horizon analogy lets you know you are reading a press release rather than a strictly factual article.
    The jury is still out on whether the blame lies with BP, Haliburton or Transocean, although it's only a matter of time before someone puts Bayer Cropscience in the frame. Probably clandestine torpedos full of Imidacloprid.
    Hi Jon
    Your reference to corn got me thinking about guttation. Bonmatin did work on this phenomenon some time ago - I recall that initially this work was viewed kindly by a member of this forum but later it was castigated by the same person!
    ................................................
    Honey bee drinking guttation water on cereal
    13 sec - 18 Jan 2010 - Uploaded by ProBeekeepersGermany
    This bee is drinking guttation droplets on cereal leaves - notice all the little droplets along the necessary (the pic did not paste!)

    Eric

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Hi Eric
    I think a red herring alert should be posted re. the entire business of guttation water.
    It is highly unusual for bees to drink guttation water. Why would they do that when there is water in puddles? You only see guttation water early in the day when bees are not really up and about to forage, or after rain when the ground is covered in puddles anyway. There was an Italian researcher, Girolami, who fed bees imidacloprid tainted guttation water with a pipette and killed them. What that proved is anyones guess. At a minimum we now know that insecticide kills insects including bees especially if they are dehydrated and offered a source of water with poison in it.
    Bonmatin's work, which is now quite dated, was not replicated by others who set the level of harm at a higher concentration. It mostly seemed to look at what dose of toxin was harmful to bees and he argued that lower levels than those recommended were actually harmful. I haven't read the Tennekes book so I don't know what he adds to the overall picture. I listened to Phil Chandler interviewing him in his podcast and Tennekes sounded as dull as ditchwater, but I guess that is not a crime. Phil made up for Tennekes' lethargy with his 500 word questions. Maybe that stupified him!!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Hi Eric
    I think a red herring alert should be posted re. the entire business of guttation water.
    It is highly unusual for bees to drink guttation water. Why would they do that when there is water in puddles? You only see guttation water early in the day when bees are not really up and about to forage, or after rain when the ground is covered in puddles anyway. There was an Italian researcher, Girolami, who fed bees imidacloprid tainted guttation water with a pipette and killed them. What that proved is anyones guess. At a minimum we now know that insecticide kills insects including bees especially if they are dehydrated and offered a source of water with poison in it.
    Bonmatin's work, which is now quite dated, was not replicated by others who set the level of harm at a higher concentration. It mostly seemed to look at what dose of toxin was harmful to bees and he argued that lower levels than those recommended were actually harmful. I haven't read the Tennekes book so I don't know what he adds to the overall picture. I listened to Phil Chandler interviewing him in his podcast and Tennekes sounded as dull as ditchwater, but I guess that is not a crime. Phil made up for Tennekes' lethargy with his 500 word questions. Maybe that stupified him!!
    Hi Jon
    Using the old adage – “A picture is worth a thousand words! How many words do you reckon a video is worth? Follow the link and tell me again that bees do not visit grasses for water. Read the book! Dead bees and birds are also deadly dull!
    Eric
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZ54VS8qMQ&NR=1

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