Here we go again!

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Jon
Times up!
The papers in dispute may have been published in 2009. However the one you are anchored on was published in June 2009, the paper I am referring to was published in December 2009. It is virtually a peer review of the work done and discussed by van Engelsdorp and Pettis during the 2009 Apimondia interview, where they state that imidacloprid, which was below the traceable threshold, acts synergistically in colonies infected with Nosema Sp., and kills the bees. The French researchers got the same result!
Best regards
Eric

[Jon]

the paper I am referring to was published in December 2009. It is virtually a peer review of the work done and discussed by van Engelsdorp and Pettis during the 2009 Apimondia interview,

Are you talking about published research, DVDs, videos or something else.

If it is a paper, have you a link to it.
What on earth is 'virtually a peer review'

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Jon
I am referring to the Cedric Alaux et al paper, published in “Experimental Biology” in December 2009, which was referred to earlier in this thread and ignored. Viz: “Interactions between Nosema microspores and a neonicotinoid weaken honeybees (Apis mellifera)
Google that title and the science will be laid before you in all its glory!

The ‘Results’, page 2, right hand column of that paper states unequivocally:
“We demonstrated that the interaction between the microsporidia Nosema and a neonicotinoid (imidacloprid) significantly weakened honeybees. In the short term, the combination of both agents caused the highest individual mortality rates and energetic stress.
.............. This provides the first evidences that interaction between an infectious organism and a chemical can also threaten pollinators, interactions that are widely used to eliminate insect pests in integrative pest management.
.................................................. ..........
Eric. If you tripped in the snow you would blame it on pesticides!!!
Jon. Watch that snow!!

Regards

Eric

[Jon]

It wasn't ignored. I commented above that it was interesting and also that it is a lab study.
Every piece of research helps the understanding of what is obviously a very complicated picture.
Pesticides may play a part, but there again, they may not have a very significant role.
Imidacloprid was being used widely in the US 10 years before the first reported cases of CCD.

[Eric McArthur]

It wasn't ignored. I commented above that it was interesting and also that it is a lab study.
Every piece of research helps the understanding of what is obviously a very complicated picture.
Pesticides may play a part, but there again, they may not have a very significant role.
Imidacloprid was being used widely in the US 10 years before the first reported cases of CCD.

Hi Jon

Neutrality! What neutrality! You must be a Tour de Force when really 'on side'!

Eric

Eric

[Jon]

Eric. I know you find it hard to believe, but some people actually really are neutral while the jury is out, and can wait patiently for the evidence to come in. I know for many people the world is black or white with no shades of grey but I haven't actually thought like that since I was about 19 years old and that was a long time ago.
The stuff I am passionate about, like beekeeping, I am very passionate about - but I try not to cut all ties with rational thought.

[gavin]

I have to say that the DVD was rather good and I enjoyed watching it. It was well put together and it was nice to see the faces behind all those names. Most of it was clear and well-balanced, but they were selective about the people they interviewed, possibly so that they could give it that anti-pesticide spin. The comments on Nosema and imidacloprid certainly chimed with the Alaux paper, but I have my doubts. I'm not saying that there isn't a link, but I have my doubts. There was all that fuss about IAPV which then came to nothing - is this just the same? There were also heavy hints dropped - by Dennis vE I think, according to US beekeepers on Bee-L - that there was going to be something really important coming out on some fungicide which was associated with CCD, but that never happened. The French work is lab studies and the lack of any sensible dose-response curve rings alarm bells. Also the added contribution of the insecticide over and above the already large effect of Nosema on its own wasn't large. For the detail of Dennis vEnglesdorp and Jeff Pettis' results we'll have to wait until they publish them.

G.