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Thread: Best scanner for morphometry

  1. #11
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    Projector Slides?

    If you have a projector, just plug the computer into it, no slides needed. If you've still got one of those overhead projector things that need printed acetate I think you need to smile at the treasurer and suggest that 1990 called and want their equipment back.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Was about to offer you a share of the half-box I have left over from the morphometry workshop, but they are quite cheap so maybe you'd rather have a full box of your own?

    Gepe Glass Slide Mounts 36x24mm Anti-Newton (something to do with the laws of motion?!)

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gepe-Glass-S...5287470&sr=8-2

    G.

    PS Nellie - I'm assuming that Ems wants to put wings in a slide mount to scan them, then process a digital image with MorphPlot or similar?
    Last edited by gavin; 31-12-2011 at 01:56 AM. Reason: getting the size right

  3. #13
    Senior Member EmsE's Avatar
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    Thanks Gavin, It's so much easier when you know what to look for- now ordered so need to get some bees in the freezer. The weather is really mild here so it should be ok to collect some.

    If you've still got one of those overhead projector things that need printed acetate I think you need to smile at the treasurer and suggest that 1990 called and want their equipment back.
    lol They've gone high tech in our LA now and use a computer for the presentations

  4. #14
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    Hi EmsE,

    You mentioned scanner. Are you scanning the wings onto a computer and using DrawWing? If you are then you will require microscope slides (I can send you some if required). If you are mounting wings into projector slides you can either project them onto a wall or scan them and use the BeeMorph software. For the older BeeMorph software I just placed the wings between two photocopy acetate sheets (I can also send a few of these if required). I would not open your bee cluster at this time of year but if you need some bees to set up your scanner I would pick some dead ones from the floors. I usually sample my bees in the spring when they are building up and again in the autumn. If you require any assistance or help in setting up of scanning your wings just PM me

  5. #15
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Yeah, I should have said DrawWing as Morphplot is just to plot the data.

    Jimbo, are you saying that DrawWing can't take scans from slide mounts, or is it just that you find it easier to use two microscope slides? As long as your scanner works at the appropriate resolution (2400x2400dpi?) it should be fine I reckon - but I could see that micrsocope slides would be easier on a flat-bed scanner.

  6. #16
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    Hi Gavin,

    I have never used slide mounts for DrawWing but Ben has tried and he had problems. I find that you need the type of scanner that can scan positive and negative slides eg I use an Epson V100 but Enid has used the newer Epson V300 that costs about £80. I find it easier to place the wings in a row along the microscope slide. I place 8 wings per slide and cover with another slide to keep them in place. I usually scan about 24 wings (3 slides) at a time and save each scan in the same folder. I have found that if there are too many wings in each scan some computers struggle to process all the images. Bens computer is like this and all he does is reduce the number of wings in each scan. If you don't have a slide scanner any scanner with the resolution you stated should work. I have a brother printer/scanner and can scan up to 50 wings by placing them between two A4 photocopy actetate sheets but DrawWing won't work with this method. I then have to use BeeMorph. I much prefer the DrawWing software as the results are more reproducable and also quicker.

  7. #17
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    I put my wings directly on the platten and cover them with a microscope slide. I can get 18 wings under each slide and scan 2 slides at a time. When using DrawWing I think it's important to use step-by-step mode because the automatic mode does a poor job of placing the cross hairs. I used to use 2400DPI but recently switched to 4800DPI but haven't noticed much improvement.

    My scanner is an epson perfection V330. I used to use a V300 until I tripped over a lead and dragged it off the bench. I can't see any difference between the 2 scanners apart from a small amount of silvering on V300 casing.

    Rosie

  8. #18

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    Hi everyone

    My (fairly comprehensive) notes on using DrawWing and MorphPlot are detailed on the instructions page on MorphPlot which you can download from here: http://www.stratfordbeekeepers.homecall.co.uk/
    Like Rosie, I put the wings on the bed of the scanner and cover them with a microscope slide - 15 wings per slide. I see no point in sandwiching them between two slides - just increases the amount of glass that the light has to travel through.
    Same with slide mounts, which I have found very unsatisfactory due to the problems of mounting - you must not use any tape as the wings have to be separate in the image and strips of tape give a shadow that joins them together.
    Using a projector will, I think, give very poor accuracy compared to DrawWing as will other programs which just see the vein junction as lines. With DrawWing the magnification is so great that the veins look like converging roads and you can put the landmark where the mini-roundabout would be! If you think that is going OTT for accuracy, just try moving the landmark a minute amount and see what effect it has on CI and DsA - you will be surprised!
    Dave Cushman used to berate me for not saving the wings mounted in slides (for the day when new and better technology arrived!); I replied that I would not be going back and re-scanning the wings of long dead queens, but if anyone wanted to save the wings then they could be filed in a small packet - no need to use expensive Gepe mounts.
    Agree that 4800dpi seems to give no advantage at all.
    Happy New Year to you all!
    Peter

  9. #19
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    Got the V330 here....still in the box after rather more months than I'll admit to. Must take you up on your kind offer of a "workshop" before much longer Rosie.

  10. #20
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    Hi Susbees

    I have been booked to speak to your people in April so we could use that to drum up some interest in a workshop.

    All the best

    Rosie
    Last edited by Rosie; 31-12-2011 at 10:03 PM.

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