Super Frame Choices

[Neils]

Just starting to price up my beekeeping wish list for next year and was just musing on Super frame choices.

Currently I use mainly SN1 frames (7/8inch top bar width) with a couple of SN4 Hoffman type frames I managed to pick up cheap. But was wondering what other people's frame of choice for supers was and why.

[Jimbo]

Hi Nellie,

When I first started I was advised to use Hoffman frames, however I inherited some Manley frames which are good but I am changing all my Hoffman frames to straight SN1's. When they are fitted with foundation I fit a short plastic spacer so the bees can draw out the foundation. Once the foundation is drawn out I change the spacer to a wide spacer. The reason for this is if you have a lot of supers to extract by having wider spacers you need 1 less frame in the super but the bees will draw out the already drawn foundation a little bit further so although you have 1 less frame the amount of honey in the super increases. The other advantage is when you come to uncapping it is a lot easier as the cappings usually stand proud of the frames edge. When you have a lot of supers to extract that 1 less frame per super also makes the job quicker. The worst frames in a super is the Hofmans as it is difficult to upcap the honey. Hoffmans should only be kept for brood boxes in my opinion.

[GRIZZLY]

I tend to use S.N.1's on narrow spacers but have used Manley .When I've got drawn comb I will fit 9 slot castellated runners to the super.This makes extraction quicker as like Jimbo the wider drawn frames are easier to uncap.The advantage of castellated runners over wide spacers is not having to remove the spacers at extraction time then having to replace them after extraction.I only use Hofmans in the brood box. I've had to extract the odd deep and I had to use an uncapping fork on the Hofman frames which is both time consuming and messy.

[Neils]

Good point about spacing, I used Plastic Spacers at the moment. I do still have a couple of supers with castellated spacers but I don't really like them very much so despite plastic ends being fiddlier I actually prefer them.

I haven't use foundation in my supers this year but don't recall a problem with the hoffman frames, can at least just cut those out into cut comb I guess.

Also start out on very narrow spacing when starting off, then increase to "wide" on narrow spacers and then move up to wide spacing. Found that foundationless comb survives an extractor reasonably well if you start off gently so I've got a couple of supers worth of existing comb to start off with next year.

[EmsE]

Hi Nellie,

I've heard others say they're not keen on the castellated spacers either. I haven't had chance to use mine yet as I only had foundation to work from this year but would be interested in what it is you don't like about them. (weighing up options when I put my next hive together from santa).

[Neils]

Couple of things really. Inevitably you'll have the wrong ones on the super for the frames that you have. 8,9 and even 10 frame spacers don't work very well with foundation in my experience as they leave far too much room for the bees to draw so you can end up with one frame drawn out loads at the expense of others. if you start off with 11 frame spacers then you have to take the super off and either have a spare with 10,9,8 frame spacers on or stick the frames somewhere to replace the spacer that's on the super.

With plastic spacers I can start off with 13-14 frames on narrow plastic spacers set narrow and then widen them out as the bees draw wax before moving on to wide spacers and doing the same thing.

There's also the small matter that I find frames in castellated spacers fiddly to get out especially once the bees start to propolise around them.

The main advantage as already noted is when you come to putting frames in extractors you don't have to fanny around getting the plastic ends off the frames first.

[GRIZZLY]

You DON'T use castellated spacers with foundation.You wait until the bees have drawn out the supers on NARROW spacers first.After extraction you can then put the frames back either on wide plastic spacers which limits you to 10 frames per super OR on castellated spacers which means you can reduce to 9 frames per super.This saves frames but gives a greater weight of honey per super.Also makes uncapping easier and, as I use a 9 frame radial extractor,I can extract a complete super at a time and don't have a few frames left to finish extracting the box.You don't need to move super frames about when on the hive unlike the brood box where it is necessary to shuffle frames sideways during routine examinations.

[Neils]

That's probably part of why I don't like them, was advised to use them with foundation. Even using comb I still don't like them very much. The time I save not having to remove plastic ends is taken up trying to get the frames out of the castellated spacers.

They're beekeeping marmite as far as I'm concerned, you either love them or hate them and I fall into the latter camp. When you're in a position of having limited kit in your first couple of years they're a royal PITA.

There is also a point to be made that precise spacing in supers isn't that important compared to the brood chamber so if you want to reduce to 9 or even 8 frames without castellated spacers (or plastic ends for that matter) then it isn't that hard to achieve once you've got drawn comb in the supers.

[EmsE]

Divided opinion It's probably better then to wait until I have some drawn comb to give them a try before deciding how to make up any new supers. If this year is anything to go by I won't be in any rush for them anyway. Would it be difficult to change the castellated spacers to runners in supers already built?

[Neils]

It's a couple of minutes to swap over normal runners to spacers and vice versa.

try em out by all means, just because I don't like them doesn't mean that you wont either and for a couple of quid a shot, it's hardly the most expensive experiment in the world