Morphometry procedures and standards

[EmsE]

Hi Jimbo,

Thank you so much for that. I have to say I extremely pleasantly surprised by the results. I haven't received the e-mail so I'll pm you with it.

Ems

[gavin]

Hi Kitta

I think that I'm also snowed in now. I did manage to get the car out this evening but it was a *most* unwise thing to do and the snow has continued to come down since then. Yup, Jim is short for Jimbo

Jim is a most enthusiastic wing morphometrist and he volunteered to do the left-overs. If he's not careful he'll get landed with several jobs to do with discovering more about the nation's Amm stock. Also, we all know now that he is an excellent public speaker, despite professing timidity.

Yes, just a scanner will do the job. I use (when I get around to it) an HP slide scanner for which I need the wings in slide mounts - Jim uses a flat-bed scanner and lodges the wings between glass microscope slides. One thing to look out for is that DrawWing is fussy and requires image files with 2400x2400 dpi or more. You can also project from slides onto a wall and do it manually. BeeMorph is another programme, less fussy about the image but it is less automated than DrawWing and needs more work to collect the data. Also it doesn't seem to work with the most recent Excel/Windows combination.

Ems: That 85% result would be good enough for most bee breeders to use. Terry yesterday and also some other experts discussing this in the Private Area think that Amm bees usually occupy quite a wide area on the plots. Besides, most of the samples we took will not be pure as there will have been a chance for drifting. But I'd also check them for other traits too (brown to blackish, brown body hairs, thick-set appearance, longish hairs on the abdomen tip, lack of yellow/orange rings) as well as reasonable temper and productivity.

I was about to suggest that when you get your plot from Jim you might like to post it in the thread above, but I suspect that I have to fix something before people can post images again!

G.

[Jimbo]

Hi Kitta,

I agree with everything Gavin has said. I am currently working my way through the samples left at the course. I should have the results all completed and sent out by the end of the week. The results could also be used for a Scottish survey for Amm so if anybody wants their wing checked just e-mail me.

Ems,

A result of 85% is a good result and I would breed from that colony. I would tend to use it as the drone producer. What I suggest you do is find out what is near you ie other beekeepers and colonies. I would then try and get a sample to check their wings. From that result you will know how to plan your breeding programme to protect your 85% colony.

Jimbo

[Mellifera Crofter]

Gavin and Jimbo, thanks for the help and information. My scanner is fine - but I need to find or order microscope slides. I'm keen to try it, but no doubt Jimbo's results will be more accurate and so more useful. I'll send an email.
Kitta

[EmsE]

I've learned a lot today about my computer in making it accept the morphometry graph and will find out how to upload the graph onto the website- I've seen the instructions somewhere- but a job for after tea.
I think the AMM traits in the workers comes from their paternal side. This queen has 2 (half) sisters ( one of which is my other colony) so if I can work around a few IT issues, I should be able to confirm either way. Characteristics of the bees- Temperament- not great, dark, but quite small. I've concerns about their ability to store but if they get through the winter then I'm happy.
My plan (written down but not sure how practical it is) is that in 2011 I get things in place to begin raising some queens in 2012. Does this seem realistic?
I'm hoping to approach local bee keepers about checking their bee wings- a good job for the winter.

[gavin]

Hi Ems

Sure does sound realistic to aim for queen production in 2012. You might be forced into it in 2011 of course if they feel like swarming!

If you think that there are Amm drones around that has to be good news. Maybe an Amm keeper nearby, or some feral colonies perhaps.

I think that the ability to upload images to the forum is broken. I'll try later this evening to see if I can fix it.

and Hi Kitta ... if you are snowed in and bored, maybe clean, clear perpex, or other rigid, scratch-free plastic of some kind, or even pieces of glass (careful!) might do instead of microscope slides if you can't find them?

G.

[Jimbo]

Hi Kitta,

If you e-mail me your address I will send a half dozen glass slides through the post to you. On Saturday at the course I handed out slides to the beekeeper who required them.
I'm impressed by all the interest in Amm by all the Scottish Beekeepers after the course and willing to assist it any way I can ie wing morphometry, slides, information on forming a bee breeding group, instructions etc.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Good idea about alternatives to microscope slides - thanks Gavin - but if Jimbo doesn't mind, I'm emailing him now for glass slides! Thank you, both.
Kitta

[ian]

Hi Jimbo
many thanks for the morphing you are doing for us all, that left our extra bees for you to work on.Realy enjoyed the course,I may have won a scanner on ebay today so will be trying it for myself soon.
Regards.
Ian.

[domino]

Hi All,
First post so be nice.

I'm interested in wing morphometry and have measured a few examples of wings for our association. Mostly mongrels but there are a couple of colonies that show DS of around -4.

The programs I use are CBeeWing and Coorecorder from http://www.cybis.se/

I have a load of .jpg files which I'd like to run through DrawWing and Morphplot to see what difference there are between the programs. Unfortunately DrawWing crashes when opening the .jpg file.

The .jpg files are from a microscope image not a scanner.

2 questions
does anyone know if I can use my .jpg files with DrawWing?
can someone send me some images of wings so I can measure them with CBeewing and compare results?

Many thanks
D