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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Kitta - sorry that you couldn't make it, and I hope that you have enough stores in the pantry to see you through a long snow-bound spell! I'm not sure that I can get out today and I'm almost at sea level ... and it is still coming down. Jimbo offered to perform wing morphometry on left-over samples yesterday so if you would like that done for you that is one way. Alternatively you may like to do it yourself in which case help is on hand here. There were some useful hand-outs yesterday which perhaps Enid could send you. One of them, a table by Ruttner, is a very useful summary of the differences between races and I may scan that later and put it on the forum.

    G.

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Thanks Gavin. I'm glad to hear the course was a success - and sorry to have missed it. Yes, we're thoroughly snowed in - knee-deep - and the hives each have a pyramid of snow on top of them.

    I was pleased to receive an email from Jim (Jimbo?) with a link to DrawWing, and to learn that I don't need a microscope - only a scanner (which I have) and some glass slides (which I'll find from somewhere) - so I'm keen to analyse the wings. I'll contact Enid for more information.

    Kitta

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    Hi Mellifera Crofter,

    If you need any information or help or just want your wings scanned for you just drop me an e-mail.

    EmsE

    I tried to send you a scan of your results today but the e-mail bounced. I have sent again so hope you get them. You may be glad to know your sample came up as 85% Amm. The best result so far!

    Jimbo

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    Senior Member EmsE's Avatar
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    Hi Jimbo,

    Thank you so much for that. I have to say I extremely pleasantly surprised by the results. I haven't received the e-mail so I'll pm you with it.

    Ems

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Hi Kitta

    I think that I'm also snowed in now. I did manage to get the car out this evening but it was a *most* unwise thing to do and the snow has continued to come down since then. Yup, Jim is short for Jimbo

    Jim is a most enthusiastic wing morphometrist and he volunteered to do the left-overs. If he's not careful he'll get landed with several jobs to do with discovering more about the nation's Amm stock. Also, we all know now that he is an excellent public speaker, despite professing timidity.

    Yes, just a scanner will do the job. I use (when I get around to it) an HP slide scanner for which I need the wings in slide mounts - Jim uses a flat-bed scanner and lodges the wings between glass microscope slides. One thing to look out for is that DrawWing is fussy and requires image files with 2400x2400 dpi or more. You can also project from slides onto a wall and do it manually. BeeMorph is another programme, less fussy about the image but it is less automated than DrawWing and needs more work to collect the data. Also it doesn't seem to work with the most recent Excel/Windows combination.

    Ems: That 85% result would be good enough for most bee breeders to use. Terry yesterday and also some other experts discussing this in the Private Area think that Amm bees usually occupy quite a wide area on the plots. Besides, most of the samples we took will not be pure as there will have been a chance for drifting. But I'd also check them for other traits too (brown to blackish, brown body hairs, thick-set appearance, longish hairs on the abdomen tip, lack of yellow/orange rings) as well as reasonable temper and productivity.

    I was about to suggest that when you get your plot from Jim you might like to post it in the thread above, but I suspect that I have to fix something before people can post images again!

    G.
    Last edited by gavin; 29-11-2010 at 01:14 AM.

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    Hi Kitta,

    I agree with everything Gavin has said. I am currently working my way through the samples left at the course. I should have the results all completed and sent out by the end of the week. The results could also be used for a Scottish survey for Amm so if anybody wants their wing checked just e-mail me.

    Ems,

    A result of 85% is a good result and I would breed from that colony. I would tend to use it as the drone producer. What I suggest you do is find out what is near you ie other beekeepers and colonies. I would then try and get a sample to check their wings. From that result you will know how to plan your breeding programme to protect your 85% colony.

    Jimbo

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Gavin and Jimbo, thanks for the help and information. My scanner is fine - but I need to find or order microscope slides. I'm keen to try it, but no doubt Jimbo's results will be more accurate and so more useful. I'll send an email.
    Kitta

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    Senior Member EmsE's Avatar
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    I've learned a lot today about my computer in making it accept the morphometry graph and will find out how to upload the graph onto the website- I've seen the instructions somewhere- but a job for after tea.
    I think the AMM traits in the workers comes from their paternal side. This queen has 2 (half) sisters ( one of which is my other colony) so if I can work around a few IT issues, I should be able to confirm either way. Characteristics of the bees- Temperament- not great, dark, but quite small. I've concerns about their ability to store but if they get through the winter then I'm happy.
    My plan (written down but not sure how practical it is) is that in 2011 I get things in place to begin raising some queens in 2012. Does this seem realistic?
    I'm hoping to approach local bee keepers about checking their bee wings- a good job for the winter.

  9. #9
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Hi Ems

    Sure does sound realistic to aim for queen production in 2012. You might be forced into it in 2011 of course if they feel like swarming!

    If you think that there are Amm drones around that has to be good news. Maybe an Amm keeper nearby, or some feral colonies perhaps.

    I think that the ability to upload images to the forum is broken. I'll try later this evening to see if I can fix it.

    and Hi Kitta ... if you are snowed in and bored, maybe clean, clear perpex, or other rigid, scratch-free plastic of some kind, or even pieces of glass (careful!) might do instead of microscope slides if you can't find them?

    G.

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