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Thread: Morphometry in a new light

  1. #11
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    Calling star ship Enterpise. I have a set of Carnica results taken in 2007 AD using the Beemorph software. How do you want me to teletransport the results

  2. #12
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Captain's Log 13.4.21. On Planet SBAi we encountered a novel life form with unusual banding on the abdomen, and overall dark appearance, a slim outline and calm demeanour but a propensity to eat up all their provisions as soon as they brought them in.

    Beam it over any way you like Jimbo. Paste it into here, email it as whatever file you have, paste it into a PM ....

    There was already a possibility of a digital slide show on 27th of next month at Scotlandwell. It is starting to look like spinning carnies and Amm wings will be on the cards too.

    Muchos gracias

    Gavin

  3. #13
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    Will do Captain. Don't have the original wing scans but the CI and DS results for each wing from the Beemorph program which I then used in the Drawwing program. It gave the same result. I will e-mail it to you tonight as an attachement.
    The queen was originally imported from Denmark and I was told it was a Carniolan. The history of this queen is interesting. Year 1 great gentle queen lots of honey. Year 2 same queen gentle and lots of honey. Year 3 new queen produced and mated with local bees gave aggressive bees and less honey. Year 4 requeened with a local queen. The drones from this original queen I can still pick up in the morph plots especially in the apairies near to the original site. It has taken about 3 -4 years for the Carniolan plots to be diluted out in the local bee population and this was only from one queen

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Carnica is the problem because they are dark and the drones can sneak under the radar. The Buckfast or Ligustica crosses show up easily because of the yellow banding.
    I don't even test colonies with a lot of yellow bees as I would not breed from them. They can be fine for making drones though if you are sure about the origin of the queen.
    That's where morphometry comes into its own as Drawwing should pick up Carnica crosses easily due to the higher than expected CI values.

    Both the plots below were very black bees, the first a swarm and the second from my father's apiary. You would be hard pushed to tell them from my bees on appearance.

    swarm..jpg Sample B..jpg

    The bees from plot B were as runny on the comb as I have ever seen and those from the swarm were aggressive. I have noticed with my father's bees that they look superficially like mine but his queens are different - not as black and with more banding.
    Last edited by Jon; 30-10-2010 at 11:19 AM.

  5. #15
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    That's an interesting tale for the 27th Jimbo.

    Do you also have the Hantel Index? Unfortunately you need a third variable for a 3D plot, but even in 2D it should be interesting.

    G.

  6. #16
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    Hi Gavin,

    The original wings were done using beemorph. I don't think beemorph gives the Hantel. If you take the beemorph plots and substitute them into the Drawwing software it only gives you the CI /DS ratio and not the other ratio's ie Ci / Hantel etc that a normal scanned Drawing result would give, but there may be a way to work it out.
    When I was on the BIBBA Morphometric trainer for trainers course I got the impression that the Hantel values were not that important to the results obtained by Drawwing.
    One way to get the Hantel index from this data may be to use another program ie I have seen C-Wing but have no experience on how it works.
    Will send all data I have got tonight as an attachment.
    The Danish queen I was informed was Carniolan by Ben but when I was in Denmark I thought it was a form of Buckfast/Carniolan that they were breeding. I can send an e-mail to Denmark to confirm the type. There is certainly no trace of black bee whatever it is.

  7. #17
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    Should be able to get you some random samples of "non native" bees if you want some. Can do you pretty dark, kind of dark witgh some banding and very yellow bees (don't you just love technichal terms).

  8. #18
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    Hi Nellie,

    If you want to get more technical send me a samples of your bees I will do the Morph plots for you and let you how native they are. E-mail me for instructions on how to take the samples and for sending them to me.

    Jimbo

  9. #19

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    Hi All
    How good a scanner do you need these days for plotting, and what is the best s/ware to use. Our association looked into it years ago when we had some mc killlocody queens, but due to bad matings the temper just got worse, the association apiary is back to local mongrels now and reasonable temper, I have gone my own way and raise my own queens.
    kev

    As requested I've moved some posts to a new thread discussing Morphometry Procedures and Standards. Perhaps a software discussion belongs there too.

    G.

  10. #20

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    I did it this way:
    In MorphPlot insert a new sheet and head column A 'Category'.
    In the MorphPlot sheet select the data and headers, i.e. the cells with Wing, Ci, DsA and Hi, and all the data in the columns below the headers.
    Paste this into the new sheet in cell B1.
    If you wish to inset a 'Category', enter this in A2 and copy it down (select it and the cells below and press Ctrl+d.
    You now have all the data required in columns A to E, but it will need saving as a text file and the spaces replacing with tabs. I gave up using notepad several years ago in favour of EditPad Lite ( free from http://www.editpadlite.com/).
    Select and copy all the data.
    Open EdipadLite and paste the data into it.
    Click on Search/Show search panel.
    In the search box type a space and in the replace box type a tab. You will not see them but they will be there.
    Click on Replace all. Your data will now be tab separated.
    Click 'File/Save as' and save the file with the name that you wish to give it.
    Open it with CurlyWhirly.
    Peter Edwards

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