Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Morphometry in a new light

  1. #1
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tayside
    Posts
    4,464
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default Morphometry in a new light

    Well folks, Jon kindly sent me the raw data for colonies 44 and 46, two of his better ones. Curious to see how the data looked in 3 dimensions, I loaded three variables (CS, DI and HI) (OK then, CI, DS and HI) into a program written by Micha Bayer of SCRI's Bioinformatics group called CurlyWhirly. You can freely rotate the 3D plot manually by spinning the plot with the mouse. Here is one projection of the three variables for the two colonies. The two colonies fall into separate 3D space in some projections even though both are 'good' Amm. Do you like?!

    Jon_44_46..jpg

    The program can also take video clips of the rotating figure. Have done so, but it is taking hours to upload to YouTube so you'll have to wait for that.

    G.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I know a guy called Richard Bache who might be put into a spin by that programme!
    Don't you just love it when beekeeping gets like Star Trek.

  3. #3
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tayside
    Posts
    4,464
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    Right! I boldly went where no man has gone before and finally converted 60% of the file (that's all the free download will let me convert) to a more suitable format and uploaded to your favourite video website.



    It is more fun to download CurlyWhirly and play with data yourself. The data files are plain text and there is an example which gives you the idea.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    How do you get the data from Drawwing into the application?

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bulgaria and Falkirk
    Posts
    17
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Maybe I’m too new to beekeeping to know what you’re on about and what it can do for you, but what do these graphs and video tell you and how can it help the poor bees??

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    Hi Hugh.
    It is a way of checking if you have native bees, imported bees, or some kind of hybrid between different races of bee.
    Different races of bee can be distinguished by certain physical characteristics such as tongue length, colouration, or in the case of the graphs, characteristic patterns on the wings.
    The native bee of the UK, Ireland and North West Europe is Apis Mellifera Mellifera.
    Native bees are considered to be better adapted to our climate and foraging conditions, especially the further North or West you get, ie they can survive in the grim mizzle which we all know and love.
    If you are interested in breeding AMM, the graph is a good indicator of the racial purity of your breeding stock.
    The problem with bee breeding is that drones can fly for miles so the virgin queen can mate with a variety of drones of unknown provenance.
    It should not of course be used an an exclusive means of selection of breeding stock as gentleness, honey production, frugal overwintering and the usual desirable features should be taken into account along with the graphs.
    Last edited by Jon; 04-11-2010 at 11:14 AM. Reason: typos

  7. #7
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tayside
    Posts
    4,464
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    Excellently put Jon.

    To prepare the data for CurlyWhirly I added a column for 'Category' (colony), removed one dodgy data point, and pasted into a .txt file using Notepad. Then in CurlyWhirly you 'Open Data' under 'File'. Here are the contents of your wing morphometry file.

    If anyone would like to take Jon's data (kindly extracted by Roger P) for a spin, copy the text below into a plain text file. As this site stripped out the necessary tabs between the data points, you will need to replace (<cntrl> H in Notepad) a single space with a tab (make a tab character in Notepad and paste the character into the 'Replace' command). For the morphometry freaks, I'd recommend trying this out as the spinning which I could capture in that video is constrained around the Y axis.

    G.

    Category Wing Ci DsA Hi
    44 1 1.93 -5.348 0.9466
    44 2 1.898 -1.921 0.8942
    44 3 1.813 -3.788 0.9016
    44 4 1.841 -5.733 0.8018
    44 5 1.591 -4.783 0.8517
    44 6 1.739 -4.373 0.923
    44 7 1.458 -4.445 0.8378
    44 8 1.626 -7.22 0.8715
    44 9 1.596 -3.663 0.9639
    44 10 1.693 -6.484 0.8528
    44 11 1.527 -6.153 0.8676
    44 12 1.492 -5.484 0.8346
    44 13 1.684 -6.168 0.8281
    44 14 1.837 -6.111 0.7802
    44 15 1.624 -3.376 0.8317
    44 16 1.927 -4.236 0.8966
    44 17 1.787 -6.167 0.8114
    44 18 1.548 -4.466 0.9412
    44 19 1.571 -4.276 0.9052
    44 20 1.61 -2.979 0.8566
    44 21 1.497 -3.82 0.8944
    44 22 1.53 -3.025 0.9494
    44 23 1.908 -4.455 0.8594
    44 24 1.752 -5.09 0.9206
    44 25 1.463 -3.457 0.876
    44 26 1.759 -7.427 0.8004
    44 27 1.673 -5.623 0.8817
    44 28 1.717 -4.821 0.806
    44 30 1.791 -2.559 0.8741
    44 31 1.912 -3.924 1.0016
    44 32 1.812 -1.665 0.9489
    44 33 1.783 -5.225 0.9485
    44 34 1.524 -5.754 0.8139
    44 35 1.826 -3.754 0.9923
    44 36 1.91 -3.794 0.8504
    44 37 1.819 -3.06 0.8456
    46 1 1.716 -7.012 0.8604
    46 2 1.851 -3.381 0.7668
    46 3 1.673 -4.963 0.9029
    46 4 2.025 -5.744 0.8084
    46 5 2.004 -3.002 0.861
    46 6 2.025 -3.082 0.9152
    46 7 1.858 -2.818 0.8837
    46 8 1.728 -3.726 0.8613
    46 9 1.821 -1.658 0.8944
    46 10 1.614 -5.161 0.7797
    46 11 1.603 -2.075 0.8652
    46 12 1.635 -2.144 0.8479
    46 13 1.753 -3.834 0.8138
    46 14 1.663 -2.277 0.9176
    46 15 1.78 -5.713 0.7945
    46 16 1.515 -5.32 0.7831
    46 17 1.951 -2.256 0.8011
    46 18 1.817 -2.917 0.7806
    46 19 1.702 -3.734 0.8202
    46 20 1.768 -4.761 0.8724
    46 21 1.548 -2.709 0.8173
    46 22 1.816 -2.678 0.9175
    46 23 2.062 -3.638 0.858
    46 24 1.524 0.9758 0.9386
    46 25 1.693 -1.671 0.8534
    46 26 1.593 -2.167 0.8806
    46 27 1.297 -5.074 0.7462

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I was hoping you would have come up with some way to take the data straight out of the Drawwing excel file.
    I'll give it a go with some of the other results I have.

  9. #9
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tayside
    Posts
    4,464
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    You just copy and paste from Excel to Notepad, and you're done. To plot more than one colony just add a column at the start, insert the name you are using for the colony, and then add extra colonies as extra rows.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    Well I gave it a go. Not sure what I learned but it was fun standing on the bridge of the Enterprise for a minute or two.
    If you put in data from two similar colonies it just rotates in a similar fashion - not surprisingly I suppose.
    We need a volunteer with a set of Buckfast or Carnica wings to expose to the dilithium crystals.
    I remember Roger had scattergrams from a few diverse colonies and swarms which were published in the bibba magazine a few months back.
    Those might be interesting to plot against native type bees.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •