CCD explained?

[gavin]

Seems like it!

See this paper from Jerry Bromenshenk and colleagues. Published online this afternoon and open for all to see.

G.

[Stromnessbees]

Now, we do have Nosema in the Uk, ... do we have IIV, as well?

And how could we possibly avoid spreading IIV (and Nosema c.) everywhere?

Doris

[gavin]

FERA reported 35% of the attendants of imported queens showing visible signs of Nosema. Does that give you a clue?!

The virus is a new discovery. I don't think that anyone will have a clue yet whether you find it elsewhere than in the CCD-affected areas in the States. It is a DNA virus and so quite different from the classic RNA viruses looked for previously.

One obvious question is whether the Marie Celeste cases (the ones that don't seem like Varroa or acarine-induced absconding) in Scotland might have this virus-Nosema combo.

G.

[Jon]

If nothing else this paper should put to bed the series of daft theories blaming CCD on pesticide use - bees supping guttation water, sub lethal doses of Imidicloprid bla bla bla.

But somehow I don't think the devotees will be deterred.

[gavin]

We'll see. Eric, what do you think?

[Jimbo]

After reading the paper the results are good and Proteomics is now starting to be an established technique (We use Proteomics in many of our Human disease research studies). We don't know if this virus is in the UK but as Doris says we do have Nosema. The way forward for beekeepers is to treat their colonies for Nosema same as we treat for Varroa. It looks like that the combination of the two pathogens together was more lethal and by reducing one of the vectors may give you some protection from CCD.
Jon the best theory I heard put forward for CCD or Marie Celeste was someone suggested the bees had just been nicked. I think I read that one in the Scottish Beekeeper

[Stromnessbees]

If nothing else this paper should put to bed the series of daft theories blaming CCD on pesticide use - bees supping guttation water, sub lethal doses of Imidicloprid bla bla bla.

But somehow I don't think the devotees will be deterred.

Hi Jon

The mass-killings of bee colonies in Germany e.g. in 2008 are a sad reality. They happened where those pesticides had been applied incorrectly on maize fields, which is a major agricultural crop there.

I know this is in German, but these people are not just talking 'bla bla bla'. There are 400 posts in that thread, and many of them well worth translating. http://www.imkerforum.de/showthread....+bienensterben

Of course it is incorrect to call all colony deaths incl. these poisoning events 'CCD', and we have to be careful to distinguish between the different causes. But just because there might be a resonable explanation now for CCD it doesn't mean that all pesticides can be declared to be harmless.

Doris

[Jon]

Hi Jon

The mass-killings of bee colonies in Germany e.g. in 2008 are a sad reality. They happened where those pesticides had been applied incorrectly on maize fields,

Doris.
I grow my food organically and I am not a big fan of pesticides.
I am always arguing with the other allotment holders that it is possible to grow good quality produce without dousing them with chemicals.

With regard to your point above, anything applied incorrectly can kill or cause damage.
The German problem was to do with incorrect application of seed coatings.
You can cause death by too much salt or too much water.
Look how many people are killed on the roads due to the improper use of motor vehicles.

The fact that companies like Bayer and Monsanto may be somewhat lacking in the ethics department does not mean that we all have to jump on a bandwagon and blame pesticides for ccd. I think that is lazy thinking and unfortunately it is the default position on a lot of the beekeeping forums.

I think it is better to look at the evidence, such as the paper in the first post, and draw conclusions in an objective manner rather than blaming the usual bogeyman.

The situation has become so distorted that the mainstream view with beekepers is to blame pesticides for ccd even though the evidence has never supported this.
Sometimes it is harder to go against the flow.

I would love to be able to lay the blame at the doorstep of Bayer but there is little or no evidence linking ccd to pesticides other than internet rants by the usual suspects.

The real problem with pesticides from a bee point of view is that it leads to monoculture and limits the forage available.
I am not saying that pesticides are wonderful.

[Rosie]

The way forward for beekeepers is to treat their colonies for Nosema same as we treat for Varroa. It looks like that the combination of the two pathogens together was more lethal and by reducing one of the vectors may give you some protection from CCD.

I am not sure I like that idea. As far as we know we don't suffer from CCD yet. I have never treated my bees for nosema because not all bees seem susceptible and the only way to breed strong bees is to let nature cull the weak ones. Last winter I lost one hive from 24 so I don't think nosema treatment is necessary in any case. If my hives started to suffer from CCD or regular nosema deaths I might think differently but prophylactic use of nosema treatment, especially fumagillin, is currently a no-no for me.

I am with Jon on the pesticide issue. Of course insecticides kill insects, including bees, but if the hot heads had had their way a lot of time would have been wasted researching pesticides instead of looking for the real cause of CCD. Many of us have tried to say this throughout the CCD search but we have been shouted down on all the forums apart from BEE-L.

Rosie

[Jimbo]

I think it is important to keep an open mind on these issues. The paper gives one scientific answer to one cause of CCD with the results published. There may be other vectors that have not been tested for yet i.e other virus strains that give a similar result, other vectors e.g. varroa etc. It may be the same with pesticides. Was there tests done on the dead bees in Germany? Was there only high levels of pesticides found? Was tests done on viruses and testing for Nosema at the same time.
As an example the IIV virus may have been present and the pesticide may have been the other vector that caused CCD. It could also have been another combination of pesticide and Nosema etc. or pesticide and something else.Only proper scientific research can answer these questions.