Yet another puzzle

[Jimbo]

Hi Gavin,

I have samples of Andrews bees in my freezer for DrawWing anaysis So far I have checked 2 of his colonies and they are not what I would have expected. The two colonies show similar results. If the other samples show the same results could it be that the bees have been in isolation so long they now have reached a stage of genetic equilibrium.
I can see a busy weekend ahead doing the DrawWing on the Colonsay bees

[Jimbo]

Hi Jon,

Andrew gave an excellent presentation at the bee course in Fife where he gave examples of how he overwintered his apideas in such windy and difficult conditions and how he raised his queens. At no point did he ever mention any problems about spotty brood. He did give an indication about the areas of Scotland where his original colonies came from. The areas were vast eg some came from the north others from the south and from the east. There was no chance the colonies were in any way related. This was also in pre-varroa days

[Jon]

Andrew did a good presentation on overwintering Mini-nucs at the Bibba Conference in Tipperary as well.
How long have they been in isolation on Colonsay?
With 35 colonies you should be able to avoid inbreeding problems assuming the mix was drawn from unrelated colonies as you indicated.

[Jimbo]

Hi Jon,

I never thought to ask him how long the bees have been on Colonsay, but at a guess along time as Andrew has been keeping bees for a long time. Gavin or John might know

[Jon]

We need to drag the man away from his oysters to post a few words!

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Jon,

I never thought to ask him how long the bees have been on Colonsay, but at a guess along time as Andrew has been keeping bees for a long time. Gavin or John might know

Hi
Sorry to butt in on a 'private' conversation. Andrew has been on Colonsay with bees for at least 30 years. I spoke to him and Bernhard Möbus at an SBA Conference in Perth about queen bees laying over the winter aroind 1982! He mentioned at that time that the had commenced with some 50 colonies. He of course is the man to know!!
Eric

[Jimbo]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for answering that. I knew Andrew had kept bees for a long time but I did not know how long on Colonsay

[Eric McArthur]

Hi Eric.
Just to clarify, there are only 19 'sex' alleles, ie the ones which are potentially responsible for producing spotty brood due to two of the same alleles producing a diploid drone which is inviable and leaves the gap in the brood when the bees remove it.
There are many other genes controlling things like colour, aggression, foraging behaviour and 101 other traits in the honey bee.
The spotty brood is a specific issue to do with the sex alleles at the csd locus.
The study above is looking at the degree to which native bees have been 'contaminated' by genetics from Italian bees.
.................................................. .......
Hi Jon/Gavin/Jimbo/Chris
I understand the function of the genes in their having particular differentiation functions to perform, but I was not aware that these gene would have numerous alleles. Does this then have a bearing on the loss of vigour and vitality, which is of course an important characteristic in the immune response?
Is the mosaic/gyandromorph condition for example a result of allele duplication or meiosis? I am on a learning curve here!

Eric

[gavin]

Hi Eric

> I understand the function of the genes in their having particular
> differentiation functions to perform, but I was not aware that
> these gene would have numerous alleles.

Most genes will come in various versions, but the 19 for the csd gene is an unusually large number. I personally suspect that if you look around with sensitive enough tests you would find more. There are reasons why populations keep a large number of variants of this gene. More normal genes may come in 2, 3, 10, 12 different variants. Usually there is selection for the 'best' variant of any gene in any one environment. In the case of the csd gene the whole population is fitter if it carries a lot of diversity for this gene. (Yes, inbreeding is the reason!)

> Does this then have a bearing on the loss of vigour and vitality,
> which is of course an important characteristic in the immune
> response?

General vigour does result from an individual having two different variants of each of a range of genes. The csd is of course a special case and an individual *needs* to have two different variants to be functionally female.

> Is the mosaic/gyandromorph condition for example a result of
> allele duplication or meiosis? I am on a learning curve here!

Probably not, but I'm not quite sure what you mean.

all the best

Gavin

[GRIZZLY]

How long is this thread going to rumble on - seems to be the only active thread on the forum !!!