Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 67

Thread: Drone genetics.

  1. #11
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Comber, N. Ireland
    Posts
    565
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Hi DR, .... chalkbrood, i experienced the same thing in some colonies that that have always been clear, requeened the worst but with the others the chalk disappeared as quick as it arrived. I reckon the bad weather causing constant dampness was the underlying cause


    re Stats and sex alleles in a closed population (thinking of colonsay), With 50 hives with a 12 sex allele population it would theoretically take 30 years to loose 2 alleles resulting in negligible brood variation (T.E. Rinder, Bee genetics and breeding, 1986, pp249) The amount of inbreeding or numbers of sex alleles can be simply estimated by estimating the numbers of eggs that fail to hatch eg 2 sex alleles gives 50% failure, 3 = 33%, 4 = 25%, 5 = 20%, 6 = 17%, 7 = 14%, 8 = 12%, 9 = 11%, 10 = 10%, 11 = 9%, 12 = 8%, 14 = 7% This is a rough estimate, you must use open unsealed brood 70 hour old to count ie patches of larvae all the same age, not sealed brood, and does not take into account whether sperm is well mixed in the queens spermatheca. Use a cut out card to isolate 100 cells and count the empties including both pollen and nectar. (Ref S. Taber, Breeding super bees, 1987 ) you should not pick the best area of the comb.

    queen viability - if you count 10 out of 100 unoccupied cells the viability = 90% .... simples. The recommended "good viability" should be 93 - 95% and is what you would expect from any queen bought from a competent queen breeder

    So lets get counting !
    Last edited by busybeephilip; 15-09-2016 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,107
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I have to admit I was surprised when Andrew said he had lost no sex alleles in a 60 colony closed population after a 10 year interval but his bees are analysed all the time by various European research projects so there is no reason to doubt this.
    Bee genetics is set up to outcross and maximise genetic diversity due to the multiple patrilines in every colony.
    Loss of sex alleles is only going to be a problem in a small closed island population and if Andrew has managed 30 years on Colonsay without problems I think all this talk about inbreeding and lack of sex alleles is well overegged.
    I guess if one person was producing thousands of II daughters from a single breeder queen it could become an issue but noone in the British Isles is doing that.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Greengage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    514
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    I see FIBKA are running the story on their facebook page.
    https://www.facebook.com/fibka/?noti...74013498377008
    maybe you should write an article for four seasons or on the NIHBS web page. Its getting legs.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,107
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I have no gripe with Fibka. It looks to me like the plan is to raise the funding privately and this may well be the stumbling block.
    I spent years chasing funding for a charity I worked for and step one before seeking funding was always to demonstrate that there is a problem which can to be fixed by the funds raised.
    There is no evidence at all to suggest that any Irish bee losses last winter were anything to do with inbreeding or a restricted number of sex alleles.
    There is no problem needs fixing here.
    The pattern I see most often is that certain beekeepers tend to lose most of their bees whereas others don't, ie, it is a management issue.
    Anyone who takes liberties with varroa treatment can run into problems as well.
    Last edited by Jon; 19-09-2016 at 10:27 AM. Reason: typos

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Wales, Gorllewin Cymru
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Anyone who takes liberties with varroa treatment can run into problems as well.
    Ain't this the truth!

  6. #16

    Default

    Hi Phillip I'm thinking about getting one of those Lasi queens and doing a chalkbrood test to see if hygiene can fix it
    I usually just burn all the bad combs and mummies
    I tried the cedar oil treatment which stimulated increased removal of mummies but as soon as the new brood capped it was back
    Eric McArthur had a theory about Formic acid and feeding
    So went with half a MAQS strip and heavy feeding
    That got all the mummies out and then requeened
    Jury still out on that one
    Shook all the bees in another onto fresh foundation
    Heavy feeding till wax drawn then requeeened
    Got them off mesh floor and onto solid one sloping forward
    Likewise jury still out on that one

    Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

  7. #17
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,107
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    If you have the energy to read through this thread from 2010, you will see the false assumptions which are being made with regard to this Cork based project.

  8. #18

    Default

    Hi Jon
    Didn't make it to the end sorry
    Did clip this though

    We learned at the BIBBA conference from Jacob Kahn that bees seem to be making a deliberate selection when choosing a larva to develop into a queen. If I understood him correctly he had studied a population and found that the distribution of traits in one generation did not follow the mathematical probability distribution that could have been predicted from the previous generation. This suggested to him that the bees are skewing the results by selecting certain larvae over others. If this is possible, presumably they could be capable of manipulating the csd allele population similarly. For example they might be attracted to larvae carrying different csd alleles to themselves.

    Jacob Kahn's observations made me wonder if we should develop queen rearing systems that afforded the bees some degree of choice rather than foisting our chosen grafts onto them. It would not surprise me if they were capable of making better choices than us. I just choose the larvae that seem to be about the right size so it would not be difficult for the bees to make a better fist of it than me.

    Rosie

    I miss Steve Rose posts what has happened to him ?

    Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

  9. #19
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tayside
    Posts
    4,402
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    Hi Jon
    Didn't make it to the end sorry
    Did clip this though

    [snip]
    Hope you made it as far as the Ivor Cutler YouTube link!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,107
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I will forever associate Eric with Ivor Cutler since that epic thread.
    It seems to me that every few years someone rises up and decides without any evidence that we have an inbreeding problem with our bees but I honestly don't see how that can be the case given the colony density, the movement of bees within the UK and the regular import of queens.
    Similar situation in Ireland.
    I would put inbreeding pretty near the bottom of the list of challenges to our bees.
    Varroa, Virus, lack of forage due to agricultural practices would be far bigger threats
    Even when I saturate mating sites with black drones I still have the odd queen manages to produce some yellow banded workers.
    The bee mating system is set up to maximise genetic diversity and the challenge (for me) is to try and reduce that to keep the matings within subspecies.
    Drones can cover great distances.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •