Has a marker been identified for avm ?

**Jon** · 12-09-2016, 09:53 AM

Trouble is his writings have become scripture for a lot of the senior Bibba people and it's an act of faith rather than science.
I don't agree with combating propaganda with propaganda.
Claims such as 'Amm makes a smaller brood nest but the individual workers live longer' come from Beo Cooper and none of this is properly evidence based.
Getting back to the AvM, there is definitely something interesting going on there but it is clear that none of us have the complete picture yet.
I am certain that what I have seen on multiple occasions is not simple absconding.

**prakel** · 12-09-2016, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by mbc

Not rating his stuff is a bit harsh, I don't think he was a natural author but that he felt he had to get something out there to refute the anti native bee propoganda rife at the time. I agree he presents some of his largely unsubstantiated observations as fact, but if viewed as a failure in style rather than deliberate miss representation I find his work valuable.

I've not seen any quantity of his articles but the book itself was compiled posthumously from his notes I believe so yes, I'd agree that plenty of lee-way needs to be given. We just don't know what his book might have looked like if he'd lived to write it himself.

**prakel** · 12-09-2016, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jon

Trouble is his writings have become scripture for a lot of the senior Bibba people and it's an act of faith rather than science.
I don't agree with combating propaganda with propaganda.
Claims such as 'Amm makes a smaller brood nest but the individual workers live longer' come from Beo Cooper and none of this is properly evidence based.

I totally agree with not 'combating propaganda with propaganda' but doubt very much that Cooper himself was the originator of much of it, he simply repeated it, for instance Wedmore makes those claims in the 1932 first edition of his 'Manual of Beekeeping' at a time when Cooper would have been around 15 years of age:

Amateur Entomologists' Society Biography of Beowulf A. Cooper
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...MYK0MzdnhBM6FQ

**prakel** · 12-09-2016, 05:56 PM

Being in the right place at the right time....

I stopped off at our mating apiary this afternoon and found one of these small clusters on the ground about two feet in front of a mating nuc, still bees at the door fanning wildly (as were the bees in the cluster) and a sparse covering of bees on the combs:

14322227_1089182504511965_2847532927306074123_n.jpg

Had a good old rummage for the queen:

14344954_1089181237845425_2979724517300262682_n.jpg

...but couldn't find any sign of her.

At this point my phone died on me but just as I was about to call it a non event I noticed another, tiny, cluster three feet further on. So I ran across the field to a friend's house and borrowed a camera in an attempt to get some kind of record:

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Yes, there was a queen in amongst them (and an inquisitive wasp).

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More photos to follow.

**prakel** · 12-09-2016, 05:59 PM

A few photos of the tiny cluster and the queen:

010.jpg 015.jpg 016.jpg 020.jpg

and finally, she's going home:
027.jpg

Nothing specific to suggest she was taking part in a mating but yes, she was outside the hive as were most of the workers (even if they'd misplaced her).

**SDM** · 12-09-2016, 09:01 PM

Was it hot enough where you are to be temp. related absconding ?

**prakel** · 12-09-2016, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by SDM

Was it hot enough where you are to be temp. related absconding ?

No I wouldn't say so but they have had a hard time with wasps of late, an issue that grew directly out of the fact that it was a badly made unit to begin with and should have been remade but time and 'stuff' got in the way of good beekeeping. The queen emerged 1/9. If they settle down again I fully expect to see eggs this week but I reckon that she was mated prior to today.

So many possibilities to what's going on, one line of speculation based on your question could run: attempt to abscond; queen gets seperated from bulk of bees which are clustered as a swarm; (if I hadn't intervened) queen returns to hive; other bees finally return too.

I think, to get a handle on this we need to start breaking these little clusters to search for the queen. Is she there, is there any suggestion that she's just mated? I can't say that I noticed any drones amongst the cluster -and no, our bees haven't started to eject them yet so there are still plenty available.