Queenless hive or not?

[alancooper]

An update on adding a frame of eggs is:
3/4/16 There were no Q cells on the test frame (just large larvae and sb) and no signs of a Q, eggs, or any sb in the brood box or the supers. There were masses of workers and occasional drones ( I do not think there was a swarm in July or recently). The brood frames had no brood but did have pollen and nectar, largely in the top half of brood frames. Some central brood frames had polished worker cells. Supers had capped honey and nectar).
Is it likely that in this crowded hive that: a Q (if present) has not been fertilised but is still signalling "Q substance" to the workers?; a fertile Q is present but is not laying because the hive does not need more brood to support yet?

I have an apidea with a laying Q and need to decide whether to put her into a poly nuc to over-winter or wait until I am sure about my problem hive. The least risky option seems to be to start the poly nuc. What odds would you give for each option?

[Jon]

You have some sort of a queen in there.
Whether she is mated or virgin makes no difference as they will not draw queen cells either way.
When you put in a test frame into a broodless hive you nearly always find the queen is on the test frame so check it out very carefully.

[alancooper]

Jon - you comment helps greatly. I will try to find the Q - good to know that she will probably be on the test frame (having failed a couple of times to find her). Given the time since I introduced a virgin, the likelihood is that she is unmated. If I find her I can then consider re-queening using my apidea Q.

[Feckless Drone]

I will try to find the Q - .

I would give some syrup and wait a week. I've seen Qs stop laying in Aug and got worried about it but I don't think its unusual. If you have not had much forage then the colony is maybe stalled a bit.
Still worth looking for the Q and marking her to help with whatever is to come.

[Jon]

I checked a nuc on Friday past and I was sure it was queenless as there was no brood apart from a few sealed cells with dead bees inside, ie the usual mite problems. I put in a test frame and the original queen was on it when I checked yesterday. She must have stopped laying for at least 3 weeks.

[Emma]

Most of my queens have either stopped laying or radically slowed down by now, with the brood nests being filled in with stores, often starting furthest from the entrance. I've started feeding now, which may prompt some to start laying again, but I mostly won't be bothering checking. Most have plenty of young bees, & they usually slow down this time of year.
The varroa drops are going up at the same time, as the brood emerges & no new brood cells are available for mites to hide in.

[alclosier]

If you really struggle to find the queen in the hive get a spare bb and super put a qe between them. Have this about 5-10 metres to the side and shake off all the bees in the original hive into the filter box. Make sure you have something for the bees to go back to at the original site.

This should allow you find the queen above the qe in a few minutes as the rest will either fly off or go through the qe.

It is disruptive, but sometimes can be the only way. At the end after isolating the queen you want gone return frames and shake any remaining bees into the main box.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Adam]

If queens in the mini-nucs have mated and are laying and the queen in the hive is not laying; there is a reasonable chance that there is something wrong. Seiving through a queen excluder should - we hope - find her*. To voice concerns - sorry - patches of polished cells rather than a clear and definite area in the centre of the brood area might indicate laying workers are ready to start and no development of queencells from introduced eggs could also be a sign.

* Shake out in front of the hive and allow the bees to walk up a ramp and back in, a queen excluder under the brood box stops her from getting back so you should find her under the Q/ex the following day; maybe with a few drones as well.

[alancooper]

??
FD said - "I would give some syrup and wait a week" to encourage laying from a fertile Q that might be present in my hive. I did this but five days later (10 Sept) - still no eggs - just sb on the test frame. In the hive, there are large numbers of workers and a few drones, unsealed and sealed honey, lots of pollen and ivy pollen being brought in. But it looks as if the hive is Qless (6 weeks now since no eggs and no sign of a Q). Tomorrow (alclosier), I plan to put the hive through a Qx filter before deciding whether to merge with a Qright hive (a Qright apidea I had was cleaned out overnight by wasps so I have no spare Q).
I hope that there is not a small unmated virgin Q in the hive or that laying workers (not yet active) that will go thought the filter. At this late stage should I go through with the merger or empty the hive in a field down the road and let the bees return to my apiary of five Qright hives?
Alan.

[Feckless Drone]

Hi there - I would feed and wait some more. What you describe, well the impression I get, is a colony just waiting for the Q to come into lay. Are you sure there are no eggs? Look for a patch of polished cells, sometimes nearby will be a store of royal jelly just ready for use. The pollen coming in is always a good sign.