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Thread: Queenless hive or not?

  1. #1

    Question Queenless hive or not?

    I need to decide whether to re-queen a productive hive. These are my hive records.
    11/7/16 - e, l, sb; 9 frames with sb; temper good.
    26/7/16 - 8 sealed Qcells; 7 frames with sb; temper good; to forestall possible swarming I harvested the Q swarm cells for incubator and apideas .
    31/7/16 - sb only present and no sign of Q cell formation; fearing Q loss I added a vQ in a cage.
    27/8/16 - no eggs or brood. This hive seems Qless - lots of bees, no brood, grumpy, but still bringing in pollen and still with drones.
    So, do I wait longer in the hope that a possibly mated Q decides to lay in a still crowded hive (2 supers), or do I merge with an apidea and its laying Q before laying workers develop?
    Alan.

  2. #2
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancooper View Post
    I need to decide whether to re-queen a productive hive. These are my hive records.
    11/7/16 - e, l, sb; 9 frames with sb; temper good.
    26/7/16 - 8 sealed Qcells; 7 frames with sb; temper good; to forestall possible swarming I harvested the Q swarm cells for incubator and apideas .
    31/7/16 - sb only present and no sign of Q cell formation; fearing Q loss I added a vQ in a cage.
    27/8/16 - no eggs or brood. This hive seems Qless - lots of bees, no brood, grumpy, but still bringing in pollen and still with drones.
    So, do I wait longer in the hope that a possibly mated Q decides to lay in a still crowded hive (2 supers), or do I merge with an apidea and its laying Q before laying workers develop?
    Alan.
    Hi Alan

    Hard to be sure, other than you are missing things (which is normal for the inexperienced and even the experienced!). I guess that one explanation is ....

    - you lost a swarm (timing could be clarified if no eggs and open brood 26 Jul)
    - queen cell missed so you had a new virgin out 24 July or so
    - with that timing a virgin could be right at the end of her mating window, or a recently mated queen is present but not yet laying

    Is there a clear area of polished cells? If so it is getting late but there may yet be a queen to come into lay.

    If there is no area of polished cells, try a test frame or fragment of comb wth eggs and larvae if you have can. Or if the brood area is disorganised with pollen and stores across the area, then perhaps risk using a spare queen. I have united an Apidea with a large colony, over newspaper over the feed hole of the crownboard above the supers - but using its queen in an introduction cage may be more reliable.

    G.

  3. #3

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    Hi Alan
    If I find sealed queen cells, next I would look for eggs, then have a really good hunt for the queen
    No queen and no eggs then taking off all the queen cells is probably a wrong move
    Introducing virgin queens is tricky and when they are in a cage the bees might not feed them so they have to feed themselves
    A month since the virgin went in looks like she didn't make it
    As Gavin says put in a test frame of some kind with young larva
    If they start cells take them down and put your apidea queen in the hive (using a push in cage if possible)
    Merging the apidea is an unnecessary complication just let that raise a queen cell (usually just one) and you might have a fallback
    Hope it works out

    Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

  4. #4

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    Gavin and DR,
    Thanks for your very helpful comments, in particular checking: for eggs when swarm cells are produced (a definite miss); whether the brood area is disorganised with pollen and stores across the area (is this an indication that there is no Q around which workers can organise the brood nest?); for polished cells (does this indicate that there is a Q around which workers can organise the brood nest?).
    Ah - the joys of bee-keeping and its unknowns.
    Alan.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    That is part of the joy - the continuous learning.

    Yes, they help indicate queenlessness (or being queen-right). In their minds anyway. A test piece of comb is a better test.

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    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    As Gavin says, if there are polished cells where you would expect the queen to lay there's a pretty good chance that a queen is present. A test-frame will confirm and also help to ward off the possibility of laying workers developing.
    IF there is a queen present there is a good chance that the introduced queen will be killed.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    More than a good chance. It is 100% certain.

  8. #8

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    On the 29th August, I put in a test frame of eggs. I should probably have done it before I started this thread and now realise that with the "do I wait longer" part of my question was not really possible to answer.

  9. #9

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    By now they should be drawing q cells if q-

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  10. #10

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    Yes - my plan is to look at the introduced frame this weekend then decide what to. I have an apidea with a mated/laying Q.

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