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Thread: Queen-rearing in a queen-right colony

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Default Queen-rearing in a queen-right colony

    When rearing queens using the queen-right method (Ben Harden method) you add the frame of cells in the top brood box; seal the top box from the bottom box with the queen for a day; and then open them and wait for the cells to be capped. Now, with all those growing or sealed queen cells in the top box, wouldn't the colony be induced to think it's time to swarm? I don't want to lose my precious queen.
    Kitta

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Hi Kitta

    The Ben Harden method (really the Wilkinson and Brown method: http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?sectionid=80 ) only uses a queen excluder and super to separate existing queen from grafts. No issues with swarming in my experience (or anyone else's I believe).

    Many folk (including me) who have used found it less reliable some summers but perhaps with the better conditions this year it will do well.

    G.

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Hi Kitta
    With Ben Harden you don't seal/separate the boxes. With the Cloake board you do. The separation of the maturing/sealed QC's means the colony does not swarm. At least, not usually. I have had a BH cell raiser swarm through my own incompetence in not checking for QC's in the bottom box.

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Gavin and his nimble fingers beat me to it as I was reading a PM from him ...

    I'd certainly second his comment re. reliability. There needs to be a good nectar flow or feed them well. As the OSR goes over (perhaps not a problem for you) it gets trickier. I've built Cushman-Style fat dummies with inbuilt feeders and even gone so far as sprinkling pollen in drawn comb one side of the grafts.

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Thank you, Gavin and Fatshark. I'll relax!

    I've separated the boxes with a crown board for a day (Ben Harden in his booklet suggests that might improve acceptance), and I'm about to go back and replace it with a queen excluder. They were on double brood, Fatshark - so no need for dummies.

    They have lots of honey and nectar and pollen - but I'll go and add some syrup as well. Thanks for mentioning that, and thanks for the link, Gavin.

    Kitta

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    On a well-packed double brooded colony I'd have been tempted to use a Cloake board where you can manipulate the top box to be literally overflowing with bees. The colony manipulations are simplicity itself ...

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    No - I failed. When I went back this afternoon to exchange the crown board for a queen excluder, I saw that they've let all the larvae dry out, so I removed the cell frame.

    I don't understand the 'simplicity itself', Fatshark! I'm going off to learn some more about queen-rearing later in July. Perhaps I'll wise up then.

    Actually, it was a disappointing afternoon. A newspaper unite I did also failed. I did it two days ago and thought I heard them chewing away, but when I opened it, I saw that they've done nothing. They all flew out and back to the site where their hive used to be. So, I rehoused them there and will have to sort them out later.

    Kitta

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Apologies ... the simplicity itself was a comment on the Cloake board setup ... rearrange the frames, turn the hive, wait, slide in, grafts in, slide out, use the cells ... with a few checks here and there.

    Hang on a second ... did you say exchange the crown board for a QE? I assume the CB was solid with no way for the Q to get through? If they're ignoring the grafts it sounds like they were either damaged when grafting (usually not a problem, certainly not all of them) or they were "not ready" which could be all sorts of things, usually accompanied with a sort of helpless shrug

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    I probably damaged the larvae when grafting, Fatshark! I went 'ouch' each time I picked picked one up. They're so fragile. The queen was definitely in the lower box. I think my next attempt will be with a Nicot or with the Drone Ranger's plunger tool for selecting one cell at a time.

    Kitta

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Did you use a paintbrush or one of those horrible Chinese grafting tools Kitta? The choice is very personal but I could never cope with the latter. An 00 or 000 sable paintbrush works a treat. Don't believe any of the nonsense on not turning the larvae over ... all utter rubbish. If the BH system is set up properly and the grafts don't take you can graft again immediately. You can easily tell whether the grafts have been accepted at 4-6 hours by the collar of wax around the cup (assuming plastic) so you can graft in the morning, check in the afternoon and have another go if you think you butchered them. Practice makes perfect

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