EFB & cell cleaning questions

[Feckless Drone]

(1) One issue I have with them is that they won't give as effective a brood break for varroa control as a separate-box A.S., because the old brood nest can't have an OMF.
(2) While the upper box still has a virgin queen waiting to mate, I'm very reluctant to shift it to inspect the box below.

You don't have to put the old Q downstairs, just that's how it has been commonly done. She can go up top and certainly in the absence of a super the flying bees will find the entrance easily (that is my experience). Just have to remember to change the direction of the entrance below. Then you can inspect the top OK, and leave the bottom for the month or so to let that new Q and her colony get sorted.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I did take some record shots, Kitta, but I'm not sure how useful they are. ... it shows the area of dense fall, there aren't any details of the cell wall fragments.
(Sorry about the visible carnage, BTW. Sometimes a few bees find their way to the underside of the OMF, not to the entrance. Horrid. Varies from colony to colony. I haven't found a way of stopping it, yet.)

Thanks for the photos, Emma. You're right: quite a lot of cell debris in the first one. No.2 is interesting with the two colours of debris: the outer white ones, and inner ones from the brood area; and the third one with the large flakes. I don't think any of mine had been that busy yet. I also find the odd bee underneath the hive on top of the board!
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm not convinced OMF do much good for varroa
The natural drop can be tiny and yet if you treat them thousands drop
So the few that fall through an OMF are insignificant

[Mellifera Crofter]

Most floors come with mesh floors, DR - particularly the poly ones. I just keep the inserts in most of the time to protect the bees from wind - except, perhaps, hives that are low on the ground. Perhaps Emma is doing the same(?).

Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

I have mesh ones above solid and a sealed space with tray
But I wouldn't expect them to be doing much good with removing varroa
Surprised that they are not optional on Poly but they might be need because of increased heat and condensation etc

[Emma]

Just give the queen down below loads of space .... she'll have a whole box to lay up if you've separated the colony correctly. She shouldn't need inspecting....

"Shouldn't"... will you tell her, or shall I?! Remind me to tell you the saga of last year's swarming season, someday
You're right about space, though, and I've not managed that well in the past. Space with drawn comb in it, in particular.

[Emma]

You don't have to put the old Q downstairs, just that's how it has been commonly done. She can go up top and certainly in the absence of a super the flying bees will find the entrance easily (that is my experience). Just have to remember to change the direction of the entrance below. Then you can inspect the top OK, and leave the bottom for the month or so to let that new Q and her colony get sorted.

Mmmm, nice! No crud from cleared-out old comb falling into the new nest, either. I want to try that. Can I still do Snelgrove bee-bleeding if it's that way up?

[Emma]

Most floors come with mesh floors, DR - particularly the poly ones. I just keep the inserts in most of the time to protect the bees from wind - except, perhaps, hives that are low on the ground. Perhaps Emma is doing the same(?).

Kitta

I keep my inserts in all the time, yes. Partly because they tell me so much that running a hive without them is like driving blind. Also, because I think it makes sense to keep the hive the same all year round, as far as possible, so the bees can get used to the space they're managing, & especially the heating/ventilation needs. My first apiary was a big influence, too - an Aberdeenshire field, quite exposed & very windy! I'd forgotten about that.
I utterly rely on OMFs for ventilation. It'd be nice to think that the 10% varroa reduction that gets quoted is true, but I don't know of course. The natural fall usually increases massively during a brood break, so that seems a particularly critical time to have the bees on OMF.

[fatshark]

Can I still do Snelgrove bee-bleeding if it's that way up?

Yes ... just reverse all the directions in Snelgroves book ... left = right, top = bottom. What could possibly go wrong? And if you're worrying about the rubbish that falls through I can probably find you a small patch of Varroa impermeable wire to replace the stuff on the board.

[The Drone Ranger]

I'm a bit of a stick in the mud FD
I have absorbed the information though
I'll have a think about it

There might be a significant varroa fall with OMF at times Emma
Mostly though you will hear folk saying that there was next to no natural drop then an avalanche after treatment
That could partly be because most hive inserts are just a bit of correx flapping around in the breeze

The figures for natural drop would probably be right in a situation where the insert was in a sealed insect proof underfloor
Anyway if you looked at the recommended drop figures up on beebase and what the predicted population at that level was
It might show whether OMF could be removing a reasonable percentage

I'm way off topic now because I don't know anything about cell cleaning or EFB