EFB & cell cleaning questions

[Emma]

they seem to have parameters they don't like to be breached, and I think cocoon linings of cells is one of them. If they think its getting too cluttered with them they give it a clean out. I think this only happens at first reuse of the comb in spring. I never see the behaviour in mid to late season.

Checking my bees' trash last week (aka clearing the varroa boards), I found one of the strongest colonies had chucked out two quite shockingly thick little lines of dry, pale brown stuff. Some of it was definitely pupa cases - there were intact ends of cocoons, and big flakes of the same material - and from the overall colour & texture I think most of the rest of it was, as well. I've seen similar before, can't remember whether it's only been this at time of year - I'll try to notice from now on!
There's a whole lot of housework going on around the apiary just now, presumably preparing space for expanding broodnests.

[The Drone Ranger]

The official word in the FERA "Hive cleaning and sterilisation" guide states:

Acetic acid fumes ... There is no evidence that this treatment is effective against AFB or EFB.

So, 'slightly' probably means 'barely'.

Apparently the sterising effect is really only aimed at Nosema
As everybody probably knows the Nosema spore has a little harpoon on a coiled spring
When the atmosphere is acidic they can't resist the temptation to fire the harpoon
Course that then makes them harmless to the bee
Presuming that's right, would any acid environment produce the same effect ?
Oxalic vapour for instance


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[The Drone Ranger]

Checking my bees' trash last week (aka clearing the varroa boards), I found one of the strongest colonies had chucked out two quite shockingly thick little lines of dry, pale brown stuff. Some of it was definitely pupa cases - there were intact ends of cocoons, and big flakes of the same material - and from the overall colour & texture I think most of the rest of it was, as well. I've seen similar before, can't remember whether it's only been this at time of year - I'll try to notice from now on!
There's a whole lot of housework going on around the apiary just now, presumably preparing space for expanding broodnests.

Hi Emma
I wonder, if the brood combs had stores in them at the beginning of Winter , would that mean they definitely had to have a full clear out before being polished up for the queen laying in

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[Emma]

They'd have licked the cells clean of honey/syrup long before they'd got to those pupa cases - it was quite a clear out! The patches were right by the entrance, so I'm hoping they'd been clearing out both for brood and for their usual offload-it-by-the-entrance pollen stash. Pollen foraging here seemed to start in earnest a week or so ago. Crownboards had been warming up for a while, so I think they had some brood already, but maybe tucked a bit further back inside the cluster. That colony's on 5-6 seams, which is big for my apiary.

[The Drone Ranger]

Sounds like your season has begun then

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[busybeephilip]

They'd have licked the cells clean of honey/syrup long before they'd got to those pupa cases - it was quite a clear out! The patches were right by the entrance, so I'm hoping they'd been clearing out both for brood and for their usual offload-it-by-the-entrance pollen stash. Pollen foraging here seemed to start in earnest a week or so ago. Crownboards had been warming up for a while, so I think they had some brood already, but maybe tucked a bit further back inside the cluster. That colony's on 5-6 seams, which is big for my apiary.

cocoons -mouse damage debris - perhaps?

[Emma]

cocoons -mouse damage debris - perhaps?

Many thanks for the implied warning - but, no, nothing like mouse damage. The cocoons were wispy, translucent sheets, not mouse-bitten chunks. The debris was in the neat lines of normal bee activity. No hollowed-out husks of abdomens among the dead lying on the varroa board. And, no mouse shit.
Plus, pity the mouse that wanders in there at the moment - the girls are alert, busy, and (re)claiming their space! Season has indeed begun :-)

[Calluna4u]

Many thanks for the implied warning - but, no, nothing like mouse damage. The cocoons were wispy, translucent sheets, not mouse-bitten chunks. The debris was in the neat lines of normal bee activity. No hollowed-out husks of abdomens among the dead lying on the varroa board. And, no mouse shit.
Plus, pity the mouse that wanders in there at the moment - the girls are alert, busy, and (re)claiming their space! Season has indeed begun :-)

Have to confess my first thought was that you must have a mouse, or more likely a shrew, active in there.....working under the certainty you would have noticed if there was a mouse.

Your bees must be in a lovely spot. We would not expect to see this kind of activity....the good houseclean of the brood cells........for the best part of another month, if not more given the forecast this spring.

We would also not expect to see such large pieces. However, your described position of the stripes of debris is pretty consistent with what would be expected. Ours are almost entirely still in pretty solid clusters.

Murray

[Greengage]

During winter do bees not extend their cells for storage in the brood box which are larger than brood cells and when they uncap it you can see a lot of debris on the floor, now where did i hear that?

[Emma]

Have to confess my first thought was that you must have a mouse, or more likely a shrew, active in there.....working under the certainty you would have noticed if there was a mouse.

Your bees must be in a lovely spot. We would not expect to see this kind of activity....the good houseclean of the brood cells........for the best part of another month, if not more given the forecast this spring.

We would also not expect to see such large pieces. However, your described position of the stripes of debris is pretty consistent with what would be expected. Ours are almost entirely still in pretty solid clusters.

Murray

Hmm, I suppose calling the flakes "big" was a bit misleading. I've been looking at a lot of bee-trash details recently... I meant pieces that were big enough to recognise as pupa casing... millimetres long, one or two mil wide, and translucently thin. The biggest pieces were entire ends of cells, but again those were just thin translucent layers. It's all relative!
The apiary is in a walled garden. Really high walls, with trees rising even higher round most of the walls. The ground slopes strongly, so there isn't too much chance of a frost pocket. That particularly lively hive is about two feet from a massive south-facing stone wall. And there are tangly brambles and the like round and about providing yet more shelter. Spoilt, bees & me both - tho' I did uproot myself & move down to Fife for that apiary, and I lived in a hut for the first 4 months I was here. Now all I need is a cabin alongside, so I can watch the bees from my desk.
Come round for a look sometime, C4u, if you're ever this side of the Tay! A little world of micro beekeeping, so different from what you do...