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Thread: EFB & cell cleaning questions

  1. #21
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbc View Post
    Not according to the bees, given the choice they prefer to rework old comb than building fresh, time after time if given the option we all know what they choose.
    Shouldnt we be listening to them?
    I think the problem is that bees are opportunists. They'll happily choose an infected comb over clean foundation because it's a means to an end, a way of securing their immediate future. This isn't necessarily a good thing.

    Of course, the issue is how to get as much benefit as possible from new comb without stressing the bees by repeated short term knockbacks. Some hives are probably better than others in this regard; our 'one size box' hives are easily migrated onto regular new comb as a normal part of their management while the dadant deeps are more troublesome in the sense that they require more actual work and a higher level of judgement and even then we've only actually shifted a handful of the combs out of any one box.

    Anyway, we all do things differently to a greater or lesser degree, in the past I was a big believer in keeping old comb to the point where I was probably a little uncharitable to those who made an effort to keep a regular rotation going. It's definitely a multifaceted debate which can be argued with strength from either perspective but for myself I'm now happy to push the bees towards new comb.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by prakel View Post
    It's definitely a multifaceted debate which can be argued with strength from either perspective but for myself I'm now happy to push the bees towards new comb.
    Quite, its definitely a debate.
    This idea of pathogen build up is horsecock unless you have efb.
    Show me the evidence bees do better on new comb, I expect they actually do do better on new comb as opposed to very old manky comb or foundation, but without a ready supply of new comb the resources needed to produce it likely override any advantages imho. Every paper I've seen extolling the benefits of fresh comb conveniently gloss over the unsustainable aspect of pouring in gallons of feed.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by busybeephilip View Post
    Its not so easy to get acetic acid at 80% in your local chemist
    ebay, Amazon or the beekeeper suppliers.
    I picked up a gallon at Gormanston last summer.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbc View Post
    This idea of pathogen build up is horsecock unless you have efb.
    We had no detected cases of EFB here for over a decade then there were a couple in 2014 and a small number in 2015.
    AFB seems to be the main problem in N Ireland.

  5. #25

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    New comb produced at a good time for the bees while boosting your honey harvest ?
    Snelgrove board gets the job done

  6. #26
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbc View Post
    Quite, its definitely a debate.
    This idea of pathogen build up is horsecock unless you have efb.
    Show me the evidence bees do better on new comb, I expect they actually do do better on new comb as opposed to very old manky comb or foundation, but without a ready supply of new comb the resources needed to produce it likely override any advantages imho. Every paper I've seen extolling the benefits of fresh comb conveniently gloss over the unsustainable aspect of pouring in gallons of feed.
    Living in an area where efb is far from uncommon I learnt my lesson the hard way so yes, that itself is a valid reason not to sit on old comb. Although I'll concede that new comb doesn't offer a bulletproof vest, I don't think that it does any harm in such a location either.

    As for showing you evidence that bees do better on new comb? I can't. What I can say is that on a year end basis, with a box suited to the idea, they certainly don't do any worse. Maybe location has a large part to play in that equation.

    Whether it's sustainable to maintain healthy colonies on clean comb I don't know but I doubt that there's any true longterm benefit to old comb other than in the early stages of building a larger scale operation, when time and necessity drive.

    There's been a lot of talk in this thread of bees reworking old comb. Why, if it's so good? What's the driver behind that behaviour?

  7. #27

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    I was in Fife yesterday and just made it to Thornes before closing
    100 sheets of wax at about £1 a sheet
    If I had a block of old wax I would have been able to exchange that and save a bit

    Last year I got a load of Thorne's white plastic ends and they will go on frames making them easy to track by year code
    If I had National length lugs they would not get in the way so I would be even keener on them

  8. #28
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    You could have made 10 x that number of foundationless frames with starter strips ... all you need are level hives and a bit of time in the winter to 'wire' them.

  9. #29
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    What's the driver behind that behaviour?[/QUOTE]

    Interesting question. It's probably a physiological thing baught on by nest building, as alluded to earlier in the thread bees coming out of winter have a surge of reworking and cleaning behavior, as do newly hived swarms and rapidly expanding colonies, I expect all colonies are programed to embark on a bit of housekeeping when in expansion phase. New or old comb I doubt this changes much.

  10. #30
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    We had no detected cases of EFB here for over a decade then there were a couple in 2014 and a small number in 2015.
    AFB seems to be the main problem in N Ireland.
    Have you heard any news about the AFB position in the South ? I have heard some say it's worse than in NI or is that just idle chatter

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