What next ....

[Bridget]

The SASA Results are in:
Varroa mites: No mites present
Acarine disease: Negative
Nosema sp: Negative

They suggest that the "likely cause of this colony loss was fermented stores and subsequent starvation. This would explain the signs of dysentery, plus the uncapped but uneaten stores which the bees had subsequently moved above"


The brood box had plenty of frames of honey stores which was mainly heather, the super had much less. However for a short while in the autumn (as they were not off the heather until the very end of September) they were given syrup. This hive did not take much of it down. I am hedging a guess that they used the super frames to store the syrup which was easier to consume (they also ate about 1/3 of the fondant which was about a 2kg block).
So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening? Another guess would be that possibly I could remove some of the frames from the brood box in the late summer, early autumn and give them some drawn frames to store syrup in.

[The Drone Ranger]

Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?

I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them

[Mellifera Crofter]

...
So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening? Another guess would be that possibly I could remove some of the frames from the brood box in the late summer, early autumn and give them some drawn frames to store syrup in.

Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?

I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them

Yes, I would also like to know, Bridget. Did they move up to the warmth and easier food before they've capped the stores in the brood box?

Instead of using a super, might it help to use Ian Craig's method of over-wintering his bees: two brood boxes with the sides dummied down. You won't then have the problem DR mentioned.

I also got my results back from SASA, and my reading of my slides was correct. The nucleus colony was riddled with Nosema.

Kitta

[Bridget]

Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?

I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them

First time I've had a big enough colony to need to give them more space through the winter DR. I did wonder in the late autumn if I should have used a dummied down brood box on top and I will certainly do that next time.


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[Kate Atchley]

Bridget, so sorry you lost these bees.

I was wondering about leaving the bees on the heather till end September. Maybe the syrup was fed after that? There was some of that occasional good weather early October, so the bees around here were still foraging vigorously at that time. Yours too perhaps. So were the bees taking in/down more nectar/syrup than they could condense straight away and once the colder weather set in it became difficult to do this, so some stores were left uncapped and unfinished?

Also, I wondered how early the fondant was fed to them? It was a mild Autumn up to Christmas, so were the bees trying to store from that block too ... again adding to the strain on the hive to drive off enough moisture from the stores?

Here I take any honey off by mid-September latest (there's heather around – I don't move the bees) so that any feeding is finished by the end of the month and the bees take any autumn forage for themselves. Maybe I'm being too cautious but we have notoriously unpredictable weather!

[The Drone Ranger]

[B]T
So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening? .

Hi Bridget
As you know fermentation is because of yeasts and moulds

I've kept supers of crystalised rape in the shed overwinter intending to use in Spring
They mostly just fermented and ended up melted down

So if there was a bit of robbing or uncapping the moisture gets drawn in and fermentation could start

I agree with your thinking that the best place for stores is above the cluster as Winter sets in

[Calluna4u]

Part of Bridgets problem may well be that last year was terribly strange and late, and in her area, where we keep several heather apiaries, the heather was still yielding commercially significant amounts of nectar until around 24th to 26th September. This is more than two weeks later than we have EVER seen it before. We were astonished at how much honey the colonies from Newtonmore north to Aviemore packed away after our last visit at the start of Sept, and around Kincraig we though the average would be under 5Kg and yet they got up to over 20Kg. This undoubtedly beat the winter bees up a bit.

However....the report you have back is only about diseases, and the lab cannot see the combs unless you sent those in too, and its not their job to comment on status regarding queenlessness or otherwise. Several have agreed that you underlying cause was *probably* queen loss. The spotting on the frames is merely the result of very unsettled bees and this is commonplace if there is no queen and thus no pheromone to keep them calm.

[busybeephilip]

The SASA Results are in:
Varroa mites: No mites present
Acarine disease: Negative
Nosema sp: Negative

Did they not check for foul brood as well ?

[Bridget]

Did they not check for foul brood as well ?

No they say in their letter they can only test for adult diseases during these tests so if you suspect brood disease to contact your inspector. I did that and gave him the full story of what had gone on. I'm sure he would have suggested a visit if he thought there was foul brood present.
There was no old brood, nor sign of brood in these frames, given it was winter I'm not surprised. However there was also no sign of any of the symptoms of foul brood which might have dated back to the autumn.

[Bridget]

Bridget, so sorry you lost these bees.

I was wondering about leaving the bees on the heather till end September. Maybe the syrup was fed after that? There was some of that occasional good weather early October, so the bees around here were still foraging vigorously at that time. Yours too perhaps. So were the bees taking in/down more nectar/syrup than they could condense straight away and once the colder weather set in it became difficult to do this, so some stores were left uncapped and unfinished?

Also, I wondered how early the fondant was fed to them? It was a mild Autumn up to Christmas, so were the bees trying to store from that block too ... again adding to the strain on the hive to drive off enough moisture from the stores?

Here I take any honey off by mid-September latest (there's heather around – I don't move the bees) so that any feeding is finished by the end of the month and the bees take any autumn forage for themselves. Maybe I'm being too cautious but we have notoriously unpredictable weather!

Thanks Kate - thank goodness you did not put "sorry for your loss" or RIP as I see on an certain a more southern based bee forum!

My bees are naturally on heather and I don't move them but as Calluna4U says they were still taking it down end of September in this area. We did feed syrup but it was not until mid October when we did the varroa treatment. I know this was very late for that but it worked well and once we had taken the strips off we gave them Fondant, end of November. The reason was that they had been so active throughout the autumn that I was worried they might need it. I suppose trying to cover all options, especially as I can no longer actually look at the bees so my husband sort of relays everything back to me to make a decision!
But all the hives were treated the same and the others were out flying today, air temp only 4 degrees with all the snow on the hills. The only difference with this colony was that it was super big going into mid October.