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Thread: What next ....

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Default What next ....

    Our strongest colony on brood and half has suddenly died. Treated with Api Boixal end of Jan and seen flying since then. Not out today when the others were so checked and all dead.
    The base was absolutely covered with bees (poly hive, mesh floor), the brood box had about 6-7 heavy frames of stores, all uncapped.
    The super was empty of stores with a very small cluster of bees in one corner which looked as thought they had starved, heads down. I suspect they had become isolated.
    on top of the super was a block of fondant about 1/3 eaten, on top of that the eke with polystyrene to fill the space. there were dead bees above the polystyrene block which had died, and sign of dystentery, presumably as they could find their way back/stress.
    No sign of deformed wings. This was my strongest colony, queen only about 18months old. I didn't find the queen and there was no brood.
    I'm sending a bag of bees to SASA Fiona Highet - is this the right thing to do.
    Some photos - small brood starvation and isolation, super frames no stores left and a lay effect like they had tried to eat the wax (though it might be the thin wax I had in for the heather) five brood frames full of stores, close up of brood frames with stores, base of dead bees.
    IMG_2617.jpgIMG_2618.jpgIMG_2622.jpgIMG_2623.jpgIMG_2624.jpg

    Now I think we will make a bonfire of all the frames so not to risk any further contamination and give the hive a good clean.
    I am a bit flummoxed - I understand why the bees in the super died. I think as the hive retracted in size they mainly moved down leaving a few behind who couldn't keep warm and find the fondant. But as to all the bees on the base ...?

  2. #2
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    Second last slide looks like AFB deposits in cells... can't tell for sure so don't panic yet.

  3. #3

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    I'm just seeing heads in cells and suppurating stores there - what's saying AFB to you Madasafish?

  4. #4

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    To my eye there is nothing especially sinister there.

    The comb madasafish refers to looks to me to only be a partially robbed out frame of heather stores (you can see the right colour and consistency of remaining honey).

    The dysentery is actually only very mild and looks like stress related.

    The residual cluster is actually tiny.

    The dead bees on the floor only reflect how tiny the colony had become and how far from the active bees they were, so no particular ability or need or morale for housecleaning.

    Especially in heather areas there will be a lot of this at the end of this winter.

    Suggested diagnosis is that your colony ended up, for whatever reason, queenless or with a virgin in it some time after mid summer last year. It probably never totally settled as a result and the bees remaining in it were all getting pretty old. Late heather working accelerated burnout.

    So you arrive at today where the colony has expired, dead bees all over the floor (were possibly scattered around the perimeter adjacent to the crown board too.) The stores it had became the target of other colonies in the vicinity, but as it is not totally robbed the activity has been sporadic. You probably thought it was flying well at some stages late last year.

    Nosema in particular can flare up in a stress situation and your sample may show this. Viruses can be found everywhere but there is nothing to indicate this being a virus death, though one of the paralysis viruses may have played a role.

    The chewed super comb is the result of one of two things.........the bees tidying up after wax moth....or starving isolated bees at that spot chewing away at anything, especially if there were crystallised stores there.

    Either clean out sterilise and rewax the combs, or sterilise with acetic acid fumes and just refill with bees in summer. Your combs are actually in good condition if perhaps becoming a little dark.

    But as always........if in doubt check it out.......the inspectors are very friendly.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    I'm just seeing heads in cells and suppurating stores there - what's saying AFB to you Madasafish?
    Well the hive did smell strange Gerry - not the usual sweet but fermented came to my mind.
    I just checked the SASA website and it says tests have to be requested by bee inspectors and as we are on holiday for 10 days I am going to drop the sample of bees in tomorrow and hope they will do them

  6. #6

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    I think C4U has the right of it Bridget. Queenlessness and maybe fermented heather honey stores looming large within a range of possible causes. Nothing you could have done differently really...

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    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calluna4u View Post
    To my eye there is nothing especially sinister there.

    The comb madasafish refers to looks to me to only be a partially robbed out frame of heather stores (you can see the right colour and consistency of remaining honey).

    The dysentery is actually only very mild and looks like stress related.

    The residual cluster is actually tiny.

    The dead bees on the floor only reflect how tiny the colony had become and how far from the active bees they were, so no particular ability or need or morale for housecleaning.

    Especially in heather areas there will be a lot of this at the end of this winter.

    Suggested diagnosis is that your colony ended up, for whatever reason, queenless or with a virgin in it some time after mid summer last year. It probably never totally settled as a result and the bees remaining in it were all getting pretty old. Late heather working accelerated burnout.

    So you arrive at today where the colony has expired, dead bees all over the floor (were possibly scattered around the perimeter adjacent to the crown board too.) The stores it had became the target of other colonies in the vicinity, but as it is not totally robbed the activity has been sporadic. You probably thought it was flying well at some stages late last year.

    Nosema in particular can flare up in a stress situation and your sample may show this. Viruses can be found everywhere but there is nothing to indicate this being a virus death, though one of the paralysis viruses may have played a role.

    The chewed super comb is the result of one of two things.........the bees tidying up after wax moth....or starving isolated bees at that spot chewing away at anything, especially if there were crystallised stores there.

    Either clean out sterilise and rewax the combs, or sterilise with acetic acid fumes and just refill with bees in summer. Your combs are actually in good condition if perhaps becoming a little dark.

    But as always........if in doubt check it out.......the inspectors are very friendly.

    As you know I am out of beekeeping for the moment so my husband was promoted in the summer so I can't tell you what I saw. However I've been keeping notes of what he saw and he is sure that during the varroa treatments in the autumn and the OA in Jan he thought the hive was very busy with bees on all frames. However he did note, at least twice, that there was no clustering in that hive, that the bees were all over the place. He also thought they were very unsettled and had wondered if they were queenless so that may well account for it. However I do agree that the store frames do look like robbing rather than normal uncapping though that heather honey in them is pretty sticky.
    I agree the chewed super comb is the result of starvation in the super. I'll get those bees off to be tested just to be sure. I've not made the bonfire yet so will sterilise the combs and throw out the black ones. Thanks for the help Calluna4U

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bridget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    I think C4U has the right of it Bridget. Queenlessness and maybe fermented heather honey stores looming large within a range of possible causes. Nothing you could have done differently really...
    Any reason why the heather honey ferments Gerry? It was all I had to offer them this year. Maybe another year I will take off more of the heather stores and let them take down more syrup.

  9. #9

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    It was maybe stored at less than optimum water content if your bees brought it in late Bridget although ling honey naturally has a higher water content than "normal" blossom honey. Dysentery associated with heather honey stores is usually attributed to its higher protein content.

  10. #10

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    Sad pics


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