Patience please.

[fatshark]

I happen to think that our association runs one of the better beginners courses that I've encountered but, at an association level, the standard generally, in my experience, is pretty high. What I have seen a lot of in recent years is a big increase in the number of people coming to beginners courses especially who already "know" just what they're going to do. They come to the course, pay their membership and we never see them again except to go collect swarms from around where we last heard they were going to be keeping bees.

Does the "beginners course" extend for the full season and into the following spring? Assuming it runs overwinter to start with that is. I think there's relatively little useful practical beekeeping skills that can be taught in ~8 evening sessions over the winter evenings. Much more important is the close mentoring from acquiring bees, first swarm control, preparation for winter etc. How do you measure the success of the course? Numbers attending, or numbers still beekeeping after three years? Many association courses are oversubscribed ... 50+ a year ... but the association membership numbers are relatively static. Somethings's going wrong somewhere.

It sounds like your association is very pro-active in providing support and training opportunities, though the take up of these is the important part.

"Membership is optional" ... perhaps it shouldn't be?

[Calluna4u]

But I'm still open to suggestion, having been involved in Education at an association level for the past 5 years, at just what we're not doing that would make your life easier

Sorry, seems my comment was not clear. I was NOT criticising associations. I was commenting that sadly there would be much to be done because the way this country operates the associations will suffer the misfortune of this task falling to them.

Everyone wants everything for nothing if at all possible. The private trainers charge a lot, the govt resources are too stretched, so it will fall to the eager volunteers.

A hard and generally thankless road to follow.

We used to allow folk to tag along (free) for a while to watch and learn and even stuck them into a hive with a smoker and hive tool and got them to do things, but since EFB that had to change with biosecurity needs, and in any case I'm afraid beginners struggled to keep up with the pace we go at, so it was not really a satisfactory way to learn.

Mind you, another factor coloured my judgement on that too. We took a guy out for a whole week with us to show him how to do certain things. When we came back from the heather we found some of our places occupied...with HIS hives. He had found out, among other things, how much honey we gave landowners for places. Simply went and offered more, plus a little brown envelope to say hello, and took our sites. He did not think he did anything wrong either! Makes you wary of helping people.

[gwizzie]

We took a guy out for a whole week with us to show him how to do certain things. When we came back from the heather we found some of our places occupied...with HIS hives.

That is just bloody SHOCKING and so so wrong I cant put on here what I would do to him

[drumgerry]

Sorry, seems my comment was not clear. I was NOT criticising associations. I was commenting that sadly there would be much to be done because the way this country operates the associations will suffer the misfortune of this task falling to them. Everyone wants everything for nothing if at all possible.

Is it just beekeepers who seem to want their training for free? This is something that really grates with me I must say. People who turn up at associations and expect to be trained and mentored all at the time and expense of the hard pressed experienced members.

Maybe if a market rate was charged we'd get fewer let's say "fly by nights" taking beekeeping up.

Plus what's with the passive expectation that many have that they should be given training. Take responsibility for your own learning! There's no shortage of good information out there (much of it on this forum!).

I've maybe said this before but the first time I ever went into a hive was the day after I had bought two full colonies! And I didn't turn out so bad.....ahem!

[Calluna4u]

Is it just beekeepers who seem to want their training for free?

Of course not.

Although the expectations of getting something for nothing or not a lot has always been there, it really took off when internet access became virtually free.

It raised everyones expectations of how much you can get for nothing and gave rise to a whole new level of libertarianism, especially in the lack of manners with which people sometimes treat each other online. Its all part of the same change in attitudes.

Then you get huge complaints about popup ads and targeted spam. Why do you think you get it free? Its to gather info for advertisers who then indirectly pay for what you think is free.

If they will not pay at least something towards their own training at least make sure your subs are enough to give your generous trainers their costs back. Maybe make it a condition of their training that their first bees must be bought from within the association, so someone gets something back.

I remember listening to a talk by 'an officially appointed person' who said they found that even a 10 pound charge caused a sharp drop off in numbers attending training events. Yet they expect others to pay out to have the pleasure of coming to GIVE them free training.

[The Drone Ranger]

I think that's right
Free training through the Summer
Usually lots of people drop out when they discover bees can sting or its just not for them etc
The people who stay are almost always keen to get bees ASAP
So providing the association can have a reserve of bees available that gets folk off to a good start
There are plenty people with more bees than they need but who don't want the hassle of selling direct and would rather sell to the local association
Most people if they get a little training and support will have a good nuc of their own to sell back through the local association within a season or two
They recover most their initial outlay the local association gets a little bit and a new beekeeper gets a nuc
It's a virtuous circle which everyone benefits from
People just buying bees before getting any experience do so because they think it's simple and they become convinced that a certain breed will have all the attributes they read about in sellers adverts


Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[Bumble]

Does the "beginners course" extend for the full season and into the following spring? Assuming it runs overwinter to start with that is. I think there's relatively little useful practical beekeeping skills that can be taught in ~8 evening sessions over the winter evenings. Much more important is the close mentoring from acquiring bees, first swarm control, preparation for winter etc.

Our winter training course runs over 8 weeks, then there is practical indoor and outdoor training throughout the season as well as weekly session at the association apiary. All new beekeepers are offered a mentor.

We get full classrooms, 100% turnout to the first ever apiary session, but after than only one or two turn up each week and maybe only half a dozen go to the practicals which cover extraction, swarm control, winter preparation etc, although everything but extraction are also covered during normal apiary time or at the apiary meetings.

We can't force anybody to attend, and it's difficult to refuse to help if they get into trouble - even though we might want to.

Once the beginners courses are out of the way we run a short refresher course each year that is open to any member of the association. This can lead to the Basic if that's what they want. We organise study groups for anybody who wants to do the modules.

Is it just beekeepers who seem to want their training for free? This is something that really grates with me I must say. People who turn up at associations and expect to be trained and mentored all at the time and expense of the hard pressed experienced members.

Maybe if a market rate was charged we'd get fewer let's say "fly by nights" taking beekeeping up.

We had complaints that 'some' members were getting more for their annual fees because they were doing training courses that cost money to put on - room hire and trainers' travelling expenses - on top of the winter monthly talks and summer apiary meetings. We tried charging just enough to cover costs, but didn't get much take-up. Then there were complaints that too few were doing either the Basic or the modules. Can't win!

We'd like to say we had a membership of interested, educated and well-informed beekeepers, because they're an asset to both the club and the local community, but if want to go it alone they will, and there's not much anybody can do about it.

[Julian]

A small association in my area only has a few beginners each year. They create a colony from the association apiary in the first season and mentor the beginner through the year using the colony. The following season the colony is theirs. Individuals get training, support and the colony only when they have proved they can look after it but only works because of the size of the association.

[The Drone Ranger]

A small association in my area only has a few beginners each year. They create a colony from the association apiary in the first season and mentor the beginner through the year using the colony. The following season the colony is theirs. Individuals get training, support and the colony only when they have proved they can look after it but only works because of the size of the association.

That sounds like a good model to me Julian
Small Local associations might be be the best way forward

[Calum]

I am our association trainer it transpires.
If they dont turn up with beers, they can crawl back under their rocks....
Well, no, not quite, but they have to buy their kit up front, and they pay top dollar for their colonies. I figure about 600€.
People that get given colonies for free dont care for them. People that bought top quality top dollar stock make sure they do everything they have to, to keep them healthy.