EFSA report on risks of spread of small hive beetle

[mbc]

Queenless booster packages are also being asked about, quite a common practice in parts of Europe, but rare here.

Im overwintering dozens of queens in mini plus hives (any I've checked are looking good -20% losses already!!!!!!! very odd!) and if the majority make it through as I'm expecting I'd thought about queenless packages to make instant colonies with these queens for filling dead outs. Upon evaluating the idea I decided this would be hypocrisy considering my general stance on imports, I do wonder wether I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face though. I'm sure other queen breeders on the forum also overwintering mated queens in small boxes will also have considered this compromise, use a foreign workforce to augment native genetics, but, especially considering where the q- nucs come from and shb, something is cross grained about the very idea of it to me.

[Calluna4u]

Im overwintering dozens of queens in mini plus hives (any I've checked are looking good -20% losses already!!!!!!! very odd!) and if the majority make it through as I'm expecting I'd thought about queenless packages to make instant colonies with these queens for filling dead outs. Upon evaluating the idea I decided this would be hypocrisy considering my general stance on imports, I do wonder wether I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face though. I'm sure other queen breeders on the forum also overwintering mated queens in small boxes will also have considered this compromise, use a foreign workforce to augment native genetics, but, especially considering where the q- nucs come from and shb, something is cross grained about the very idea of it to me.

If you don't need early strength you can easily shake them from your own stronger colonies. Yes we do that too......if we need to. Just be sure to mix up the queenless bees from at least two colonies, three or more is better. Over rides the fighting instinct, causes confusion, and makes queen acceptance better.

Genetics pollution is not normally an issue with packages (have seen some poor exceptions) as the best producers supply them drone free. Usually taken from the honey supers above excluders. Gives the best age bees for the job, especially if they are going onto foundation at destination (best way for health). Applies equally well to imported or local packages.

Did quite a few this way last season...worked fine......though there can be a tendency to supercedure if the queen comes from a very small mating nuc (smaller than the others overwintered the same way I mean) as it can indicate that the reason that nuc is especially small is due to a limitation in the queen, and once she comes under major pressure to lay she cannot cut it.

The guy reporting the 20% losses already did so in November. That was the rate of robbed out, queenless, or drone layers after the heather. June excepted it really was a very poor queen mating season up here. Requeening, or at least hoping for queens to mate, at the heather is just a waste of time the success rate is so low...and these bees were all at the heather. I do not have anything like that and some of my groups currently look like a fair bet for 100% winter success...but of course it never quite works out that way as you come across the drone layers, queenless ones, and other issues once you get into them in spring.

[gavin]

I go into my office for the first time since Hogmanay to find three more *inquiries* for packages....as heavy losses from worn out bees, poor matings, and virus issues are expected to give them significant problems in spring. In this case they are from Yorkshire, Shropshire, and Essex. Total 250, limited mostly by what the think they can afford. None yet firm orders.

Once upon a time there were two bee farmers, both with 100 colonies. I know, not really enough but it makes the arithmetic easier. One just went for honey, then found his stocks not doing well over-winter. Burnt-out, he thought. Could be virus, or Varroa, he wasn't sure. So he decided to buy packages to fill the anticipated 50 empty boxes. Cost him £88 to get a strong unit that was back into production within a month of arrival, perhaps early June if he was lucky. Let's ignore frame, foundation and feeding costs. Half of his operation was now headed by imported queens which gave him nice well behaved colonies (that season) which were productive but needed more feeding and visits so in the end were about as economic as his previous locally adapted types. £4400 spent. He could justify that to himself (and anyone else) as the honey crop gained from his empty boxes was worth more than that. He was happy with his way of doing things and told his mates all about it.

The other bee farmer also had 100 colonies and also didn't pay too much attention to her (we've randomly switched gender) bees getting burnt out, or virus ridden or with a little too much Varroa (personal issues at the wrong time of year). However in the winter months before the season got underway she was astute enough to invest in 100 Paynes nuc boxes (£2,500, it was sale time and she pressed those Paynes brothers hard for a little extra discount). At swarming time she split off two frames of bees into two Paynes boxes from the half of the (particularly well-behaved) colonies that tried to swarm. That lost her a small fraction of her final honey crop, a hardly noticeable 5% (£1,250). These splits were fed as required (£300). It was a *really* bad year for queen mating so with failures and a little fusing later she was down to 60 well-filled Paynes nucs by the end of the season. What now? The Paynes nucs were well looked after and pre-screened for dodgy queens so 50 came through the winter. The main colonies didn't fare so well (burnt out, virus, Varroa - she'd had personal problems in August and September remember) and 50 looked like they weren't going to make it. Nae bother, she was able to refill using her spare nucs. Pity, she had been hoping to sell them early in the season for £150 each (£12,000 for 80 in a good year). Never mind, maybe next year. However she still had those 100 Paynes nucs to do it all again next year ...... and next year she swore to find a way to pay better attention to the health of the main colonies when they really needed a spot of feed or a Varroa treatment. Also, she was able to get a little more of an early season crop than BF1 as her overwintered nucs built up earlier than BF1's packages.

Beefarmer 1.
Costs (excluding frames and some feed) - £4400

Beefarmer 2.
Costs (excluding a similar number of frames and some extra work, and including the extra feed, the Paynes boxes, paint for them (£100) and the small loss of the honey crop from additional splits) - £4150
Additional benefits
- the sale of nucs next year when things go better and 80 are extra: £12,000
- half of the early season crop (missed by BF1): £5,000
- no purchase needed from Paynes in year 2 so the whole thing gets better in subsequent years

Who was the better beekeeper (or businessperson?)? What did Bee farmer 1 do with the splits he'd be doing anyway as part of his swarm control - don't know!

Community benefits from a) more settled genetics locally, b) small reduction in the risk of non-indigenous viruses, c) small reduction in the risk of importing Varroa pre-adapted to newish varroaicides, d) better beekeeping locally
- very hard to quantify

That's my answer to the 'not enough bees' argument .

[mbc]

Once upon a time there were two bee farmers, both with 100 colonies. .........

That's my answer to the 'not enough bees' argument .

Winters hardly started here, I hope you've got lots more "once upon a time"s up your sleave Gavin.

Seriously, it's the man (or woman in your example, why was it the woman who had personal issus at a certain time of year Gavin? Not very pc, does she also bat for the other side?) hours of extra work raising lots of nucs that shouldn't be underestimated, it really has to be an integrated plan with swarm control and maybe queen rearing too, not everyone has the inclination, something always has to give if you're already hard pushed. Also, as C4u alluded to earlier in the thread, packages are almost maintenance free with regard to swarm control in their first year.
Obviously I'm 100% with you that beefarmer 2 ' scheme is more progressive, but it would take a sea change of approach for some, and possibly managing fewer colonies too. If it were that easy more would be doing it already.

[gavin]

The gender switch came about as BF2 was starting to sound a bit too like me! (I have no intention of getting rid of the beard and some other things .... ). At least it sounds like some of my aspirations if not the achievements.

Yes, queen rearing and integrating with swarm control make things even better but I was trying to keep this simple. I'd maybe take issue with this being far from the methods of many existing bee farmers. I'm doing the split into a Paynes box alongside as I don't like heights . Do an extra split with a queen cell into a second Paynes box, take them away or block them in a couple of days and we're already at the system of BF2.

The remaining unit is the strong, honey producing one with lots of brood to hatch out. If things are advanced, whittle down to one queen cell and come back to remove the extra ones they'll make later. If queen cells are not yet sealed, walk away and come back a week later when you'll again leave one. Can take a split then if you need more. This usually remains a very good production unit with the bulk of the bees and a new young queen for the late summer forage.

Oops, misunderstood C4U's system.

[mbc]

2013 and 2014 were real eye openers for me where I took massive hauls off some very strong hives which hadn't been split. In previous seasons I'd have probably split these for increase near enough as you describe, but reading Mike Palmer's advice ( and listening and watching his excellent lectures from the nhs) I tried leaving big production colonies intact, as much as their swarming intentions allowed, and made my nucs from underperformers/ dinks. Given that we get a period of high pressure during the summer it's a real pleasure to watch colonies seriously reaching their potential and getting enormous quantities of honey and I think doing things this way pushed my averages up.
Sorry if this has nothing to do with shb, delete/move it if you like.

[Kate Atchley]

Bee farmer 2 sounds familiar ... guess you know her!

[gavin]

Bee farmer 2 sounds familiar ... guess you know her!

Totally fictitious, although slightly autobiographical here and there. The 'personal issues' were largely to explain away her close attention to her Paynes nucs earlier in the summer but taking her eye off the ball a little later in the season regarding Varroa control and feeding in times of need - so that she ended up in a similar position to BF1.

If there is a bee farmer like that (and especially if she's single ... ) you'll need to pass on her details as I'd like to meet her!

[SDM]

That's my answer to the 'not enough bees' argument .

Then you'll be happy to price match with the countries that can produce enough.
I'll take 50.
But no, you'd want 5 times the price wouldn't you ? Could that be supply and demand ?

[gavin]

Then you'll be happy to price match with the countries that can produce enough.
I'll take 50.
But no, you'd want 5 times the price wouldn't you ? Could that be supply and demand ?

No, the current local price is nothing like 5 times. My contributions on this thread have been all about increasing local supply and decreasing demand simultaneously.