EFSA report on risks of spread of small hive beetle

[Jon]

Locally, I don't know of any apple business prepared to pay for pollination.
I get e-mails through to the BKA secretary account stating the the trees are 'ready' - but they want beekeepers to shift colonies there without a fee.
I don't know who could be bothered with that.
Probably a case of penny wise pound foolish on the part of the growers.

[Calluna4u]

I can see the frustration with people cutting their own deal but if the subscription and admin charge are really that small then work needs to be done on the perceived benefits of going through the bfa.
I did look into it myself and it seemed brilliant to have a guaranteed payment, but I'm not prepared to ship my bees any great distance. I do pollinate a few smallish apple orchards locally but it only involves a couple of dozen colonies and the orchardists are always prepared to pay up. (I charge £40/colony, is this about right?)
Again, to my mind, there is a mismatch between the implied importance of pollination to the farmer and their acceptance of using amateurs to save a few bob.

At 40 pounds you are cheap. Not ridiculous but I THINK the BFA scheme charges in the mid 50s.

British farmers do have a culture, as Jon touched on too, of being penny wise and pound foolish.

One example I met was of a middle sized farmer who declined to pay for bees but you could put them in for nothing if you wanted but at your own risk. He knew both his neighbours paid for bees to be brought in and his attitude was why should he pay, enough will fly across and do his too for nothing. I know of no experiments in the real field situation where farm has excluded bees from part of their crop and seen the consequences for fruit quantity and quality. It has been researched at institutes in many places but in the field I am unaware of anything. I guess the difference is that some choose to 'get by' without paying, but others pay. and generally are top dogs. They are often, to use a word Gavin will like, 'grippit'. The bee densities used in Europe on apples especially is pretty high, they pay well, and the excel at their job of producing table fruit. It may be that quality is considered secondary, in the cider apple trade at least.

Complex subject, and if you go beyond apples there is still a massive pollinator deficit here for field crops. It will only be truly lucrative for the beekeepers if there is a major culture change. However the farmers want the bees, they seem never to get enough, but they still think we are all folks doing it for love not lucre. They are for the most part right. Even those who do willingly pay don't get everything they want, so extra bees ARE needed in many (not all) seasons.

As for the guy who left? Sigh. He got what he came for, the use of the BFA to get some pollination deals. He forgets that the BFA works hard for its members and everyone elses subs had in part gone to getting him what he needed. He could only see (or only wanted to see) the BFA as a cost after that. Harsh and selfish for sure, but just something we have to put up with. we work to create a better situation for professional beekeepers. That this then also benefits others is not an issue that bothers us, however sometimes human nature disappoints.

[prakel]

One example I met was of a middle sized farmer who declined to pay for bees but you could put them in for nothing if you wanted but at your own risk. He knew both his neighbours paid for bees to be brought in and his attitude was why should he pay, enough will fly across and do his too for nothing.

I seem to remember a direct reverse example of this when a beefarmer stated quite clearly on the Radio 4 farming programme that his bees would probably just fly over the hedge to a nearby rape field. It was a piece on apple pollination.

[The Drone Ranger]

Locally, I don't know of any apple business prepared to pay for pollination.
I get e-mails through to the BKA secretary account stating the the trees are 'ready' - but they want beekeepers to shift colonies there without a fee.
I don't know who could be bothered with that.
Probably a case of penny wise pound foolish on the part of the growers.

Hi Jon
If I grew apples I wouldn't waste time and money with beekeepers and honey bees
They will fly up to 3 miles looking for the best nectar source
That means they will just as likely fly off to somewhere else even if they are smack bang in the middle of an orchard
Bees like mason bees or bumble bees stick pretty close to the nest area about 200 yards or so
They dont sting and are better pollinators and harder workers than honey bees to boot
The only thing they require is a bit of nesting area (tubes in the case of mason bees) and some pollen yielding plants which don't flower as the same time as apples

In many old books you can read how they would try to innoculate some syrup with blossoms from the target crop and feed it to the hives attempting to get the honey bees focused on that
You cant fool them for long though they will find something better as soon as conditions slow nectar from the apples

So why would you choose honey bees which cost money to introduce while possibly providing no pollination improvement over gentle busy pollinators that are guaranteed to stay in the orchard ?
You wouldn't unless the BFA and the BBKA advertising campaigns fooled you into it
Any claims that without honey bees there would be no pollination of crops is mostly just a case smoke and mirrors

[Jon]

Any claims that without honey bees there would be no pollination of crops is mostly just a case smoke and mirrors

I doubt there are enough non honeybee pollinators. Keith Delaplane has a lecture which includes research on pollinator efficiency and although honeybees are not the most efficient there is nothing else around which has colonies of 40,000+

[The Drone Ranger]

I doubt there are enough non honeybee pollinators. Keith Delaplane has a lecture which includes research on pollinator efficiency and although honeybees are not the most efficient there is nothing else around which has colonies of 40,000+

That might be true for US Almond deserts etc but theres no reason why apple orchards can't support plenty pollinating insects
Apples are not that attractive a prospect for honey bees
There is a general assumption that any time anything gets pollinated it must have been by honey bees
That is simply not true there are loads of other pollinating insects
Bee colonies being moved in are just a sticking plaster and a not very good one
The argument that if we don't import thousands of package bees every year nothing will get pollinated is just not credible

[prakel]

I would imagine that primary use of wild pollinators could well lead to a PR nightmare in any situation where sprays are deemed to be needed. At least with managed honey bees the focus can be deflected a little.

[The Drone Ranger]

I would imagine that primary use of wild pollinators could well lead to a PR nightmare in any situation where sprays are deemed to be needed. At least with managed honey bees the focus can be deflected a little.

Hi prakel
There are always conflicting opinions on these issues https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...UE8Vhey4d95gUA

[prakel]

Hi prakel
There are always conflicting opinions on these issues

DR, that's a nice link (some other, non bee, stuff that looks quite interesting on their main site too), thanks.

I'm not surprised that they believe healthy honey bee colonies, working in an environment which supports wild bees, are necessary. That makes perfect sense to me. Even if they go on to say that this can best be achieved in combination with no chemical input to the crops -as you'd expect from an organic farming research centre. Long way to go on that one.

[mbc]

The argument that if we don't import thousands of package bees every year nothing will get pollinated is just not credible

I dont think that's the argument, it's more that productivity per acre is much better with adequate pollination, making the whole enterprise more commercially viable. The guys who pay me with no quibble have been advised to do so ( or at least to pay someone to pollinate) by agronomist consultants. No doubt many blossoms would get pollinated anyway, but if an orchardist has invested heavily in planting an orchard, installing irrigation, soil testing and nutritional ammendments, then they want the best crop possible and that can only be possible with optimal pollination.
Packages aren't the best way to achieve this, but probably a much cheaper option than sourcing overwintered colonies after a disastrous season.