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Thread: Scottish Native Honeybee Society

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    I'm sure if the bar is low enough to include Bees kept in Perthshire the I'm bound to have them in Angus as well

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    "bar is low enough" ? I think the bar is pretty high to be fair ! Send Gavin some bees to look at or post an image - I don't think he can do the DNA analysis by eyes though

    Is it surprising that colonies of near native Amm exist across Scotland ? Carnica have been the bee of choice for beefarmers and beekeepers in Germany for ages yet the stocks are still, despite this, surprisingly high in Amm genetics.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengumbo View Post
    "bar is low enough" ? I think the bar is pretty high to be fair ! .... Is it surprising that colonies of near native Amm exist across Scotland ? Carnica have been the bee of choice for beefarmers and beekeepers in Germany for ages yet the stocks are still, despite this, surprisingly high in Amm genetics.
    It's becoming more and more evident that the native bee/Amm prevails in our northern climate and tends to mate with its own kind, if possible. Here in the Ardnamurchan, surely helped by 4 successive poor, wet seasons for the bees, has shown this to be so. The bees which have survived and mated successfully in these conditions are showing little or no signs of their earlier mild hybridisation. Research findings will tell us more about this soon ... watch this space!

  3. #83
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    Nothing new about this really as it has always been thus. Murry has said often that his bees go black over time regardless of the origin. Bernard said the same thing.

    PH

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengumbo View Post
    ....Obviously it can look Amm and have wings like Amm but still not be.

    Encouraging though. A bigger survey is planned next year so hopefully can get a better idea of the situation.
    Surely the jury is out on your observation GG. My own guess is that if you study carefully ALL the physical/morphological traits shared at the Aberdeen workshop on identification, including the wings, and if this gives top scores on them all, the DNA will probably show them to be Amm.

    With the various research studies being carried out, we are already getting close to the answer on this. The SNHBS survey should help move us much closer to a reliably answer, assuming we can raise the funds to do DNA analysis on those bees found to display in full all the known physical traits with no counter-indications.
    Last edited by Kate Atchley; 04-12-2017 at 06:55 PM.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengumbo View Post
    "bar is low enough" ? I think the bar is pretty high to be fair ! Send Gavin some bees to look at or post an image - I don't think he can do the DNA analysis by eyes though

    Is it surprising that colonies of near native Amm exist across Scotland ? Carnica have been the bee of choice for beefarmers and beekeepers in Germany for ages yet the stocks are still, despite this, surprisingly high in Amm genetics.
    I can always tell if someone is Swedish just by looking at their blue eyes, fair skin ,blonde hair ,and tall willowy frames

    here`s a good example


    The teashirts in particular are very close

    [SNIP] Copyrighted image [/SNIP]

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    Last edited by gavin; 05-12-2017 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Image carries Copyright watermark - sorry DR [fatshark] Yes, thanks FS, Getty are quite fierce on this [Gavin].

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    I can always tell if someone is Swedish just by looking at their blue eyes, fair skin ,blonde hair ,and tall willowy frames

    here`s a good example


    The teashirts in particular are very close

    [SNIP] Copyrighted image [/SNIP]

    Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk
    sorry about image issue

    here's my point
    No matter what things look like, once the genetics have been mixed, you can only go forwards with what you have
    There is no natural system where over a reasonable time period the mixing can be reversed
    Therefore you can choose bees which have certain colour or hair or wing attributes
    Thats not the same as reversing the mixing or hybridisation

    Lets take the example of a chicken breed The Marsh Daisy
    http://www.marshdaisy.org.uk/
    The 81 members of that society are trying to "save" a breed of chicken
    http://www.marshdaisy.org.uk/feather...vice-from-1922
    At least they like dog breeders they have some pedigree information

    If I gave you several Collie alsatian crossbreeds you might over many generations unscramble them and end up with a true breeding line of Alsatian types and another of Collie types
    At any point you could say this dog is a Collie because it looks like one
    At a later point you might say that by detecting DNA SNiPs which match those found in Pedigree Collies makes the animal a Collie
    BUT without pedigree as far as any reasonable definition goes it is not a Collie its a dog like a Collie or a new breed of Collie
    Don't turn up with one at Crufts unless he goes into the any other or mongrel categories

    Now if it makes people happy to say they have AMM bees and they are happy then I am not knocking that any more than the chap who wears a fake Rolex because it looks and works just as good as the real one

    I only object when someone tries to sell/pass off the fake Rolex to me by describing a Rolex and delivering a Timex

    I am not of a religious persuasion I think it represents delusional thinking, but neither am I an Atheist, so once someone comes up with a reasoned argument supporting the miracle of AMM pure strains emerging from the genetic soup of central Scotlands bee population I will be the first one to say sorry for doubting and can we go back to shore because walking on water scares me

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengumbo View Post
    "bar is low enough" ? I think the bar is pretty high to be fair ! Send Gavin some bees to look at or post an image - I don't think he can do the DNA analysis by eyes though

    Is it surprising that colonies of near native Amm exist across Scotland ? Carnica have been the bee of choice for beefarmers and beekeepers in Germany for ages yet the stocks are still, despite this, surprisingly high in Amm genetics.
    No surprise that even the German beekeepers can't reverse hybridisation despite years of working in unison (mostly)

  8. #88

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    A wee update on recent events has been put out by SNHBS:

    http://www.snhbs.scot/identify-those...november-2017/

    Next event is the AGM on Saturday, 17 March in Kinross near Perth, where one of the worlds lead bee researchers, Per Kryger, will give a talk on bee breeding and the conservation of AMM.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Greengage's Avatar
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    That link was interesting I wonder if NIHBS in Ireland thought of running something along these lines.

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