neonicotinoids update

[greengumbo]

http://www.sasa.gov.uk/sites/default...pe_2015-16.pdf

Survey summary released by SASA on Scottish Winter Oilseed Rape Cultivation 2015/16: Impact of the second year of Neonicotinoid Seed Treatment Restrictions

[greengumbo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40382086

and the paper here.....but behind a paywall.

http://science.sciencemag.org/conten...6345/1393.full

[fatshark]

A big study.
With big variation.

Taken together, our results suggest that exposure to neonicotinoid seed treatments can have negative effects on the interannual reproductive potential of both wild and managed bees, but that these effects are not consistent across countries. The country-specific responses of honey bees and bumble bees strongly suggest that the effects of neonicotinoids are a product of interacting factors.

You could surely flip this round to suggest banning the - as yet unknown - interacting factor to avoid the detrimental effects ... if you were from Syngenta (which I'm not).

High profile and lots of exposure certainly, but I'm not sure the it makes things much clearer, at least for honey bees.

What do you think GG?

[James O]

No access to full paper unfortunately.

What disease control did they use? Strange that they allude to different disease levels in German hives vs. UK/Hungary and then identify pesticide exposure as the culprit.
Why the high winter mortality in the UK? Same question as above arises.

[madasafish]

Why the high winter mortality in the UK? Same question as above arises.

Piss poor beekeeping seems as good an answer as any. The UK mortality rate recorded was iirc over 50%. As that is at least double the UK norm.. either the bees were rubbish or the beekeeper was.

If the bees were rubbish, the study for the UK is invalid...

So let's imagine neonics are banned. What are we going to replace them with? Organic? At a time when UK farmers claim to be short of labour? Not plausible or realistic.

As everyone is so quick to ban things, but not propose a realistic substitute, I fail to take the arguments seriously..

[Greengage]

I give up, there are so many confusing reports its difficult to know what to know. http://static.producer.com/wp-conten...052.1499065068
We are involved in a number of studies here on site with students. Looking at Varroa control, Sub species of bees, Urban forage, and medicinal benefits of bee venom. I was telling a friend about these and he suggested that a BSc was Bullshit, MSc More shit continued and PHD Pile it high and deep sometimes you have to wonder where all these reports and studies are going there must be vaults and vaults of them some get legs and others just disappear. Lots of kids ( they seem to be all kids with no experience of life maybe I am getting to old) come out of collage after completing these totally disillusioned and no idea where they are coming from or going too. No that's not true the last three students we had are off on a gap year to Indonesia and something about a disco on a beach to see the sun rising or is it setting ah well maybe they are right.

[Jon]

Apparently the bees used in the UK part of the study were nucs rather than full colonies.
Also, different fungicides were used in the 3 jurisdictions of the study so that is another variable it failed to take account of.