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Thread: Apiary Vicinity mating again

  1. #61
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    It's not a situation of overcrowding as described by Manley.
    I find the Manley quote interesting as it suggests a coincidental combination of factors. The overcrowding bit is actually, irrelevant. He could have mistaken the trigger. The point of posting it was to add context to the idea that there could well be more than one thing happening.

    We appear to have no clear sightings of the queen mating (presumably multiple times) even though she's in such close proximity to the observer. So unless Amm queens mate while settled in a stationary cluster I can't really see how AVM can be claimed.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prakel View Post
    I can't really see how AVM can be claimed.
    I take your point but I am convinced this swarming has something to do with the mating process. The queen is in the swarm, she alights, they cluster around her for a while, the cluster breaks and they return. At this point she has not started to lay in the apidea. 2-3 days later she starts to lay. This behaviour happens again and again year in year out at different apiaries.
    There are no eggs when it occurs and I always find them 2-3 days later.
    If this were a random event why does it always precede the start of egg laying.
    I also saw this happen once from a full colony with the supersedure queen. I posted about it on the forum at the time. there were only a few hundred workers involved plus the queen.
    If you were able to see this for yourself you would be convinced there is something very organised going on as opposed to absconding.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by busybeephilip View Post
    I'll put forward this theory for AVM there is nothing to prove that this is incorrect
    (speculation here)
    There is an invisible green triangle rotating above my head.
    There is nothing to prove that this is incorrect.

  4. #64
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    I can see it!!

  5. #65
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    If you were able to see this for yourself you would be convinced there is something very organised going on as opposed to absconding.
    I'd truly love to see this behaviour, first hand, and don't doubt that 'something' is going on. Having spent a lot of time watching behaviour at a DCA some years ago it would be fascinating to see this event too.

    ____________________

    Jon, earlier in this thread Gavin referred to the irony of you proving Beo Cooper right. Far more ironic, I think, is that one of the primary supporters of the AVM theory is beekeeping's very own MythBuster .

  6. #66
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    There is an invisible green triangle rotating above my head.
    There is nothing to prove that this is incorrect.
    Jon,
    There is help you can get for that

  7. #67
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prakel View Post
    Far more ironic, I think, is that one of the primary supporters of the AVM theory is beekeeping's very own MythBuster .
    Yes I know!
    I am trying to be objective about what I see and I am not about to stumble into ley line territory any time soon.
    It could be to the queen flies to a DCA the day before I witness this 'AvM' event and what I am seeing has a different role in the development of a fertile queen which does not involve the direct mating with drones. Migration of sperm in the spermatheca, queen pheromone development, sharing colony scent etc.
    The swarm always contains the queen and it returns to its home be it nuc, apidea, or colony.
    What I am certain about is that this is an organised non random event and it is not absconding or an aborted attempt to abscond. I see absconding from apideas as well and there is a clear difference. Absconding usually takes place after a queen has started to lay and sometimes takes place just a day or two after she has started to lay with only eggs being left in the apidea. The usual suspects apply - overheating, overcrowding, too small a space.

  8. #68
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Yes I know!

    The swarm always contains the queen and it returns to its home be it nuc, apidea, or colony.
    What I am certain about is that this is an organised non random event and it is not absconding or an aborted attempt to abscond. I see absconding from apideas as well and there is a clear difference. Absconding usually takes place after a queen has started to lay and sometimes takes place just a day or two after she has started to lay with only eggs being left in the apidea. The usual suspects apply - overheating, overcrowding, too small a space.



    when you see a drone comet and actual queen mating taking place in your small swarm which you have seen "hundreds of times" and even the mating sign or drones having their way with her ladyship on a post or tree branch then i might start to believe and give AVM some consideration. At the moment its total make believe. Its swarming / absconding behaviour.
    Last edited by busybeephilip; 18-08-2015 at 10:24 AM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I saw it once with a supersedure queen from a full colony. That was hardly absconding.

  10. #70
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I saw it once with a supersedure queen from a full colony. That was hardly absconding.
    Saw exactly what?

    A virgin being mated in the swarm?
    Last edited by busybeephilip; 18-08-2015 at 12:37 PM.

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