I have little snippets of various stages of this but getting the entire sequence recorded from start to finish would be quite a challenge.
I have little snippets of various stages of this but getting the entire sequence recorded from start to finish would be quite a challenge.
This is the little cluster you get after the mating swarm.
This was 12 July 2014
This preceded the little cluster settling
There are bees moving right to left in the shot as well towards hives to the left so it is not that clear.
There is definitely some sort of swarming behavior going on - no doubt on that. I have observed this same thing in my own Amm bess but also to some extent in other races with bees in mating nucs.
whether it can be described as mating is a bit up in the air (pun) as no comet is observed and no mating sign seen on the queens return or in the wee cluster of bees (as far as i am aware from Jons comments).
Have never seen them returning to an apidea before but i can think of reasons for that scenario to happen in relation to absconding
The fact that the queen begins to lay a few days later is irrelevant and does not prove that this swarming is a mating event, she could mate day before, before on the same day, after on the same day or the day after the swarming event
As Prakel says .. if this was demonstrated as a true mating event it would re-write the books but given that Amm mating aparies exist in europe where a lot of research is done in bee institutes now for many years and this has not been scientifically documented I still remain un-converted.
I am open to suggestions as to what this behaviour might be but this is a phenomenon which I observe several times every season at multiple apiaries and it follows the same sequence of events every time. If it is not a mating event what else could it be? Why would bees abscond and come back a couple of hours later? Makes no sense.
About 5 of us witnessed the bees returning to an apidea yesterday including the chair and vice chair of the assocciation.
When I check, the queen starts to lay 2-3 days after this event. That does not of course prove she mated during the event but it is a mighty big coincidence that it always happens 2-3 days before she starts to lay.
And I don't think this happens every time as I have seen queens returning solo showing the mating sign. I think some fly to congregation areas as described in the literature but others mate over the apiary. Could be 10% or 50%. I have no real idea on that.
Put a queen excluder on the apidea with a newly hatched Virgin queen. then take it off when you have a video camera ready, hope for a swarm, then observe, wait for queen to return, put excluder back on
sacrifice the queen a day after she returns to the apidea to see if she is still a virgin or a mated queen ?
Last edited by busybeephilip; 14-08-2015 at 12:26 PM.
Nice ideas. Or just leave the mated virgin behind the excluder to lay fertile eggs. But you might need to monitor queen movements during orientation flights too as she might not fly to mate the first time.Originally Posted by busybeephilip
Last edited by gavin; 14-08-2015 at 12:38 PM.
The experiment should work apart from a real mating flight taking place first of all prior to the "swarm" ahh...but then the mating sign would be visable on her return so the experiment would conclude at that stage
And if she did go on a "swarm" it may add weight to this not being a mating event but some sort of swarming behaviour
Last edited by busybeephilip; 14-08-2015 at 12:49 PM. Reason: thinking more on this!
The queen takes loads of short orientation flights before taking a mating flight.
The orientation flights can take place early or late in the day but the mating flights are always between 1.30pm and 6pm.
This is an orientation flight. You can see her leave running up the side of the apidea and returning a short while later and going back in.
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