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Thread: Rebecca and Ged Marshall on the beeb

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    I'm sure that the scheme is designed to be helpful and try to get apprentices established. I doubt very much whether the host would have employed an apprentice to get work done - it takes a lot of additional time to teach people on the job and if the host was after cheap labour he/she would have tapped into the pool of experienced beekeeping assistants available, many from E Europe. One guy I know helped his apprentice by donating sites to her.
    If I take a complete novice , show him the same procedure on 10 hives, is there honestly any manipulation in Beekeeping that he couldn't then copy.?
    That's actually how I learned, a Turkish commercial beek in France was my mentor, I inspected 115 hives that first day he did 200. I was simply confirming queen and no queen cells.
    How much would an experienced beek want paying for servicing 200 hives ?
    It took him 5 or 6 hives before he had one with queen cells after I'd seen them I did 2 with him watching and then off on my own. It took him less than n hour to train me for the next 8 hours work. That was day one, the discrepancy would be much worse as more general knowledge was gained.
    It's not rocket science.

  2. #12
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    There are 22 different topics listed as topics to study in that BFA link I posted earlier. I learned a few of them myself as I'm now trying to turn a coin from beekeeping.

    Being able to perform a cursory examination of hives for queen cells isn't quite enough to run a bee business.

  3. #13

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    Absolutely not, but in a commercial environment, most of the learning will be through repetition, so as an assistant , I was a commercial asset nearly immediately and so will most of the apprentices.
    Training can only be given so many ways and that side of it is not really my concern. I'm much more worried about afterwards. So for completely new to Beekeeping folk, who do t own their own land or have a " British honey producers" to inherit, would someone like to give me an estimate of setting up a 200 hive business ?

  4. #14

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    I simply fear that those without Rebecca's obvious head start will simply take paid positions in other countries like new Zealand who have an emergency skills shortage for beeks and pay better than average wage ($60k NZ)for qualified beeks(and no age restrictions either).
    But that isn't going to help Beekeeping in the UK.
    I've just sorted my first out apiary which by chance has led to the opportunity to go from 25 colonies to 150 ish. By next year. My primary income comes sept-april so I can jump in without loosing income, but still I have a huge amount of work to do and money to spend to make it possible. I already own the 5 acres of my home apiary and by chance have come across someone with huge amounts of land and just happened to be thinking about finding himself someone to produce honey for him to sell(he has an interesting branding, I can't really say more about yet).
    Are there any commercial beeks in the UK that don't own any of their sites ?
    Last edited by SDM; 02-08-2015 at 11:59 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    I simply fear that those without Rebecca's obvious head start will simply take paid positions in other countries like new Zealand who have an emergency skills shortage for beeks and pay better than average wage ($60k NZ)for qualified beeks(and no age restrictions either).
    But that isn't going to help Beekeeping in the UK.
    I've just sorted my first out apiary which by chance has led to the opportunity to go from 25 colonies to 150 ish. By next year. My primary income comes sept-april so I can jump in without loosing income, but still I have a huge amount of work to do and money to spend to make it possible. I already own the 5 acres of my home apiary and by chance have come across someone with huge amounts of land and just happened to be thinking about finding himself someone to produce honey for him to sell(he has an interesting branding, I can't really say more about yet).
    Are there any commercial beeks in the UK that don't own any of their sites ?
    As it happens I'm a commercial beekeeper who doesn't own any of my sites(over 20, thank you farmers) I've also spent a season on a nz bee farm 15 years ago to learn a bit, the learning curve was steep, you must be much quicker than me to pick it all up so easily, I think I would have benefited greatly from this apprenticeship scheme back then, mostly through networking opportunities but also kinesthetic learning from people who walk the walk. I think it's fantastic young enthusiasts now have this opportunity, don't knock it.

  6. #16

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    As regards owning sites....I'd be surprised if a single commercial beekeeper owned any of their heather stances - land ownership being what it is in Scotland.

  7. #17

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    That's true of heather sites in Wales too, its all managed by"natural resources Wales " but you still need your other apiaries because they'll only be on the heather about 6 weeks.
    MBC did you get them all at the same time or did it take you a decade or so ?
    These people are going to be unemployed and needing masses of equipment and sites or they are simply going under year one.
    I've also heard it said that if Beekeeping is your sole income , you should have 2 yrs finance in reserve ?or a gainfully employed othdy half, an impossible position for any apprentice.
    An industrial training scheme is long overdue and if I was younger I'd have loved it.
    I'll reserve judgement til I hear what happens to them on completion.
    Last edited by SDM; 03-08-2015 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    Absolutely not, but in a commercial environment, most of the learning will be through repetition, so as an assistant , I was a commercial asset nearly immediately and so will most of the apprentices.
    Training can only be given so many ways and that side of it is not really my concern. I'm much more worried about afterwards. So for completely new to Beekeeping folk, who do t own their own land or have a " British honey producers" to inherit, would someone like to give me an estimate of setting up a 200 hive business ?
    I think networking would be a key skill
    The ability to negotiate would be important as well

    As for owning land I don't imagine that would make much sense
    Commercial beekeeping is a migratory concern
    Finding the right spot at the right time to place hives
    Knowing how many to bring to any location

    Deciding whether extraction and processing plant is needed or can be afforded

    What business are you in is it queen sales , nuc sales, Honey production
    Will you buy in honey from beekeepers , produce it all yourself ?
    That's going to determine how many hives you need
    What statutory regulations might you encounter , employment law for example

    Then there's Marketing Branding,Selling etc.etc. etc

    Sort of all the things any business would have to consider

    You must know some or all of this if you have worked in a big commercial operation ?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    MBC did you get them all at the same time or did it take you a decade or so ?

    I've also heard it said that if Beekeeping is your sole income , you should have 2 yrs finance in reserve ?
    My apiaries are a work in progress, the worst ones get dropped and I'm always looking for good new sites, it's a holistic process and generally I've found apiaries as bee numbers have dictated I need them.
    I started on a shoe string with no financial reserves but a willingness to turn my hand at earning an alternative income in the quiet season, it's resulted in a bit of a Hodge podge of a tin pot operation but overheads are low and I'm still in business after two decades ( may have to do a bit of labouring this winter as crop forecast is dismal!). A high earning spouse would be a godsend but I've not had that either and have been my families primary wage earner. If the passion and willingness to make sacrifices is there then it can be done, "where there's a will, there's a way".
    I don't see apprentices in any field walking out of the apprenticeships into owning a ready made business, the usual mo is to work for someone else for a few years more. I think one of the aims of the bfa apprenticeship scheme is to provide a route for succession planning, most bee farmers being ancient with bits starting to fall off.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbc View Post
    My apiaries are a work in progress, the worst ones get dropped and I'm always looking for good new sites, it's a holistic process and generally I've found apiaries as bee numbers have dictated I need them.
    I started on a shoe string with no financial reserves but a willingness to turn my hand at earning an alternative income in the quiet season, it's resulted in a bit of a Hodge podge of a tin pot operation but overheads are low and I'm still in business after two decades ( may have to do a bit of labouring this winter as crop forecast is dismal!). A high earning spouse would be a godsend but I've not had that either and have been my families primary wage earner. If the passion and willingness to make sacrifices is there then it can be done, "where there's a will, there's a way".
    I don't see apprentices in any field walking out of the apprenticeships into owning a ready made business, the usual mo is to work for someone else for a few years more. I think one of the aims of the bfa apprenticeship scheme is to provide a route for succession planning, most bee farmers being ancient with bits starting to fall off.
    It was Gavin who suggested that the career path was to set up alone after qualification, but as we can see there are huge practical and financial obstacles that make that impossible (at least for some years) who here could make 200 bives this winter after 3 yrs of low income ?
    Depending on the time of year they qualify , they will have a month of months and possibly years before they see any income(who would pay for their new business).
    So in short I think k we can forget about it being setup to send them out into business on their own, as there isn't another aprenticeship model that does this.
    So where is their career path ? do they propose some further qualifications ?, there is no mention of it, no suggestion of a finishing salary. Honestly I don't think Beekeeping in the UK could ever afford to pay the wages of any but migrant labour.
    So again I say, what happens to them when they finish 3 years cheap labour ?
    There's just no mention of it from the BFA
    Last edited by SDM; 03-08-2015 at 09:35 AM.

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