Q rearing by numbers

[gavin]

You just need to knick off a smidgen (1-2mm) from each frame edge in the middle to get a white cup to sit between the top bars without falling to the floor.

On second thoughts, an extra smidgen (2-3mm?) would allow the frames to be pushed together with a gap at the box ends, stopping propolising of space between the sidebars.

[Kate Atchley]

On second thoughts, an extra smidgen (2-3mm?) would allow the frames to be pushed together with a gap at the box ends, stopping propolising of space between the sidebars.

I think I'll cut circles with my splendid new circular drills ... to keep the frame spacing right and allow the plastic cup holders to bed down to their "shoulders".

Gavin I can't imagine they need wiring in the frames as there are bottom bars and quite small so they're not going to become very heavy. Have others found wiring necessary (or "neck scary"as my spell check preferred!)?

Re inner covers ... I think I asked Prakel who said some use plastic which can be peeled back but that he had never found a problem with the bees from either side mixing/having access to each other and their respective queens.

[Kate Atchley]

Here's one of the MP mating nucs drilled to receive Q cell cups. I'll use the divider but drilled all the frames. Will get them lined up next time! IMG_0174.jpg

BUT tell me, please, about filling these nucs with bees and adding queen cells. I usually add bees, leave them closed up for 24 hours or at least overnight, and then add the queen cells. But I have been using Apideas with their inner covers and extra flap over the cell hole. If I do the same with the MP nucs, bees are going to pour up and out the moment I open the nuc. Is the answer to add bees and queen cell at the same time (they'll be from different colonies at present 45 mins drive from each other)? Does that not increase the risk of non-acceptance of the cell/queen? Or is it better to create inner covers and a flap over a drilled hole for adding the Q cell?

I've also heard it can be done in the dark with a red light (infra red or just red?) which does not activate the bees. Anyone tried that?

How much easier all this will be if the nucs are kept charged with bees and comb drawn. Will aim for that next year.

Kate

[Jon]

The thing about cells getting rejected is a myth repeated everywhere. Cells get torn down by virgin queens but they don't get torn down by queenless workers. I wonder where that started and why it get copied from book to book. Just fill with bees and add the cell after 15 minutes.
The cells don't need any tinfoil protection either.
For that type of unit it would be easier to let the virgin emerge in a roller and then add the bees at the same time.
Put the virgin in then drop a scoop of wet bees on top of her. keep closed for 24 hours and open at the mating site the following evening.

With my apideas I aim to get 3 mated queens per unit. (but it is always a bit less!)
The first one I add as a virgin as described above.
Once she is mated I let her lay in the apidea for about 10 days to check that the brood is normal.
I then remove her and add a queen cell immediately.

If you want to add a cell at the start 15 minutes is enough. They don't have to be left overnight.

[Kate Atchley]

Jon thank you. You've sorted it for me! Will try the virgins and the cells and see which wins!
Kate

[Jon]

I have filled about 80 apideas so far this season using a virgin queen and wet bees. Very few have mated so far due to poor weather, maybe 7 or 8, but any I have checked, the virgin is still there.
Virgin for the first queen and then queen cell for every subsequent one is my strategy.
I put the queen cells in the incubator about 2-3 days before emergence.

octagon-incubator-small-pic.jpg

This week is looking good around midweek and I should get a lot more queens mated.

http://www.forecast.co.uk/belfast.html

[prakel]

Here's one of the MP mating nucs drilled to receive Q cell cups. I'll use the divider but drilled all the frames. Will get them lined up next time! IMG_0174.jpg

.............Or is it better to create inner covers and a flap over a drilled hole for adding the Q cell?

That's what I'd do. After taking the time to drill those top bars it seems silly not to make use of them.

I've also heard it can be done in the dark with a red light (infra red or just red?) which does not activate the bees. Anyone tried that?

Not personally, but I remember that John Laidler(sp?) aka Rooftops used to write about using the method sucsessfully on beekeeping-forum.

How much easier all this will be if the nucs are kept charged with bees and comb drawn. Will aim for that next year.

Life becomes simpler for sure .

[fatshark]

The red light trick works extremely well. I use an Ever Ready (I think) head torch with a couple of red LEDs. You can gently open the box in the dark and the bees just amble around on the frames. The only problem I ever had was a bee falling from the crownboard (a bit of plastic sheet in my Kielers) into my sockless boot. Ouch.

[Kate Atchley]

Thanks Prakel. Very helpful. The weather has been so dreadful up here that I'm just starting the Q rearing. Off in the morning to set up a hive to drain field bees into the lower box, as per Pasago Ramic!

Fatshark ... excellent. Look out for news headlines: Moidart red light district!

Kate

[prakel]

The thing about cells getting rejected is a myth repeated everywhere. Cells get torn down by virgin queens but they don't get torn down by queenless workers.

Myth or not, my experience has been that given the opportunity, bees will do what they want to do. No 100% rules in my experience .