Just out of personal curiosity (bit of topic drift here) what queens are being used? I seem to remember reading a post by you a year or so ago where you mentioned that your Italian suppliers aren't interested in their own native bee (apologies if I've mis-remembered that).Originally Posted by Calluna4u
edit: not a 'loaded' question by the way -living south of the Bournemouth demarcation line, we've got all sorts here!
Last edited by prakel; 04-04-2015 at 08:29 AM.
"and it most certainly does not generate money on a scale that you could call it greed driven".
Yet you are importing 1200 packages. - may not be greed but surely that's a fair-sized commercial operation. I don't have a problem with people running a business - I have a business of my own - but to hide behind the first statement and to belittle your operation is a little bit disingenuous?
People here may not agree with imports, however it is always interesting to hear of other points of view and whilst importing bees is still legal we all post here because we are interested in beekeeping and to learn and exchange ideas; it just needs to be done with honesty and not any implied insults or any of that stuff.
If I was hiding anything I would not give numbers. 1200 is a drop in the ocean, just a micro operation. It will save the enterprises of a few, and provide bees for many that do not have them today. It is not a profit driven exercise. 1200 is six days work. 3 2day trips. Last estimate of the number of imports through non official channels, (meaning the opinion of exporters in source countries and importers I know of) is between 12000 and 20000 a year (beebase figures are always low as they only record the imports where everything has been done right down the line). I think that figure high, but would be genuinely surprised at anything much under 8 to 10,000.
Take into account the ones currently supplied by local breeders, and the unsatisfied demand, then an annual need figure of 15 to 20,000 a year is entirely feasible. Just thrown in to illustrate the scale of the task facing those who wish to close the door and force the production to domestic sources. The issues of supply, quality, and price all push things towards continuation of responsibly sourced imports. Close the door without addressing all three of these points and the imports will still come in, just through irregular and unregulated channels. The main point being that good 3.3lb packages with mated laying queen are available for in the upper 80's (pounds), less reliable sources for in the low 60's.................and good well mated queens sell at source in the EU for a range of prices between 8 and 16 pounds.....higher than that and its niche market product. Anyone up for doing all this? I am going to be doing home bred nucs and queens in large numbers, and cannot get anywhere near those figures. Short season, inconsistent weather, high input costs....
If there was both a market and suitable production conditions the trade would be well established. That it is not tells us all something.
Main reason we are going down the home breeding road is to give us a modicum of protection against those who would pull up the drawbridge. Mainly for our own unit but also for others who can face random and catastrophic winters from time to time.
FWIW....... transhipment of packages often takes place at a particular location in Belgium. Two years ago I was there collecting some for England from one particular trader based in Sicily, but while we were there another fridge truck arrived loaded with 1200 packages in one load (it could carry even more and according to the driver normally did. These were to be transhipped later to traders arriving from Netherlands, Belgium, France, and the UK. That's one load. The driver was on a weekly round trip and CLAIMED to have a delivery with his truck to the UK coming up. Before anyone panics these were bees from Puglia, well inspected since the SHB outbreak and nothing found, it is over 400Km away. Just an illustration of the unseen scale of the trade.
Last edited by Calluna4u; 04-04-2015 at 06:30 PM.
Attachment 2221Attachment 2222No, you are perfectly correct. They actually have the same negative opinions of ligustica as we do. Less hard working, breed to the point of starvation, less resistant to disease, especially nosema.
The bees we source are from guys in a mountainous area, and are bred for a fairly harsh climate. Yes they get hot summers but they have to be tough as winter spells of -20C are not uncommon.
They are mostly dark Buckfast of a northern provenance originally, or carnica.
Two pictures attached for you to look at. Taken on a stock sourcing and supplier checking trip in 2014. Not black bees for sure, but nice stock.
Wow big number of imports, kind of sad as it is a direct indicator that the Uk beekeepers are not able to provide for themselves. Right enough you desperately need to become self sufficient or Uk bees will ever be victims.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not at all. They would not let them in, and could not let them back out (I guess the Italians would not let them back) short of taking up beekeeping not much else to be done. To call it a tragedy is OTT letting 80 infected colonies (regardless from what) continue would be an idiotic tragedy!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So what were they infected with? Any wiping out of bees for no good reason other than 'a problem with their papers' is very sad to me. If it was colonies on combs and they were carrying either of the foulbroods fair enough.
Will never happens. A few folk get the idea we can on the basis of seasons like 2014 when almost anything would mate and lay, at least up till late July. Been quite a few rather smug answers about how easy it had been for beekeeper x or y, so why should we all not do it.
Weather is the main thing. For two successive years we did not get a single queen mated out of around 1000 between the end of the first week of May and the second week of July. Result was a lot of drone layers and queens that failed in the coming winter. We can do our best but unfortunately in many years we end up with a sadly high number of substandard matings, leading to substandard colonies in spring. When that wind off the North Sea gets going you just do not get enough days warm enough to get the job done.
Like I said in another post...if it was truly a viable option in the UK the gap would have been filled long ago. We will be doing what we can, but it just cannot be relied upon.
Interested to know which years your matings were so catastrophic Calluna. Even here in Speyside we've not had such a disastrous year in my time here which is 11 years this year. Not a single queen mated out of 1000?
And as to the lack of self sufficiency of UK beekeepers commercial or not. Why bother making the effort if all you have to do is click a couple of screens and a few days later a queen turns up. We'd soon find a way to be self sufficient if imports were stopped. Any commercial beekeepers (not aimed at you Calluna as I know you're trying to set up a queen breeding programme for your operation) who can't deal with that can go the way of the dodo as far as I'm concerned.
And another thing.....if it takes 20,000 packages to fill the demand maybe there are some unrealistic expectations going on here. Perhaps people who want bees need to be patient and get them locally. The commercial guys can breed their own or devil take the hindmost.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks