Was SHB, Now more queen and nuc raising

[fatshark]

Maybe so at the level of those with just 1 or 2 colonies but anyone with a few more should certainly make up the insurance of a few nucs.

Jon and prakel … I agree with what you're both saying but the critical phrase in the sentence above is should. I belong to one of the bigger local associations and less than 10% of members actively raise queens (i.e. more than one at a time, or with any real effort to select for desirable traits) and about the same proportion or less overwinter nucs. There's not a single overwintering nuc in the - very extensive - association apiary or in the 6 apiaries of even quite experienced beekeepers I know of within a mile or two of me*. Together these probably contain 60-80 colonies.

Michael makes the point in his talk that he's not the first or even the twenty-first to stress the benefits of overwintering nucs … he even quotes skeppists doing something similar about 150 years ago.

* of course, they might all be in their back gardens like mine are … but I doubt it.

[prakel]

Michael makes the point in his talk that he's not the first or even the twenty-first to stress the benefits of overwintering nucs … he even quotes skeppists doing something similar about 150 years ago.

For sure, and I'm as big a fan of the way he presents his message as anyone but my point about Hooper is that while his book has been one of the most widely read by British beekeepers for the best part of 40 years his message (which is like a blueprint for the Palmer plan) still hasn't sank in. I wonder how many of the people who claim to have read his book actually felt a need to read past the swarm control chapter....

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With regards to the Bibba days, I don't know the details of how they're presented but can only assume that something is better than nothing, that said, I reckon that there's not going to be a wave of change running through British beekeeping anytime soon. A few new local groups may be set up but you can well bet that they'll be dependent on one or two members and the others will just be along for the ride because they like the idea so long as someone else is driving the project.

[mbc]

A few new local groups may be set up but you can well bet that they'll be dependent on one or two members and the others will just be along for the ride because they like the idea so long as someone else is driving the project.

Twas always thus.
I've run a couple of queen rearing courses with the association and its obvious from the start only one or two will pick it up and have a go for themselves, but that's enough, one keen beekeeper can raise good queen cells to share with other members, making good use of available resources.

[Jon]

One person who can graft and has access to a few good queens can provide queen cells for dozens of beekeepers.
Our group has about 50 active members and although quite a few are interested in grafting, two of us do almost all the grafts.
That's why I think establishing groups is critical as you will never get the majority of beekeepers grafting or raising their own queens.
It is a laudable aim, but for those with plenty of money they just don't mind throwing out £35-£40 for a queen.
I think a lot of attendees treat training days as hobby related entertainment rather than a stepping stone to raising their own replacement queens.
It is a fun day out seeing an aspect of beekeeping which is of interest, no more than that.

[prakel]

...but that's enough, one keen beekeeper can raise good queen cells to share with other members, making good use of available resources.

One person who can graft and has access to a few good queens can provide queen cells for dozens of beekeepers.
Our group has about 50 active members and although quite a few are interested in grafting, two of us do almost all the grafts.
That's why I think establishing groups is critical as you will never get the majority of beekeepers grafting or raising their own queens.
It is a laudable aim, but for those with plenty of money they just don't mind throwing out £35-£40 for a queen.

This is exactly where I think the whole 'sustainable apiary' philosophy is doomed to failure on anything other than a very small individual basis. Those who rear their own queens have the knowledge that they can do so where ever they live but if they rely on someone else to do the grafting or raise the cells they remain as dependent as the person who clicks that paypal button for a ready made queen. What happens when their job or family requires a move to another area which doesn't have such a group? It's back to the default paypal button. I don't have any constructive answers (other than suggesting that a lot of people need a good shake to wake them up) and, like I wrote earlier, I do agree that something is better than nothing but I just don't understand why people are so distanced from queen rearing it's probably one of the simplest aspects of beekeeping -especially when most beginners seem to spend the season trying to stop their colonies raising new queens.

[mbc]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUPKIT-Com...item41913d131b

I am starting to promote using this system for people unable to graft themselves, for £30 anybody who can catch their favourite queen should be able to raise a few good cells from her with this.
Coupled with links to Randy Oliver and Sue Cobey's queen rearing pages, and a few minutes waffle about selection, it allows my queen rearing talk to concentrate on getting to the tea and cake asap.

[fatshark]

I suspect there's a useful intermediate position between the Paypal purchase and large scale grafting … one that allows a 1-4 colony beekeeper to raise the few queens he/she needs each season, either for replacement, stock improvement or making (limited) increase. Most queen rearing talks I attend (or give) or courses emphasise the grafting/large scale enterprises (the one Michael Palmer gives has a repeating four day cycle through the season that he uses to raise 1100 queens a year … ). Unfortunately, this middle ground is perhaps even more dependent on an appreciation of the timing and necessity for good observational beekeeping.

This thread probably isn't the place to start discussing the best way of generating 2-3 high quality queens from larvae with desirable genetics. There are probably a million possible routes to do this and, critically, they don't require activities like grafting and maintaining mini-nucs that lots of beekeepers find daunting. I think that this would be a useful practical skill that should be within the abilities of most beekeepers and would reduce all those Euro (or in due course Drachma) Paypal payments

[prakel]

So the question is how to get the message across that people could be doing this stuff for themselves, getting so much more enjoyment out of their hobby and saving a few pounds too.

I mentioned grafting earlier as that had already been discussed in the previous posts, but as suggested, there are plenty of different ways to get from 'a' to 'b'; the problem seems to be getting the beekeepers not presently raising their own queens to 'a' in the first place.

[brothermoo]

I think availability of local quality queens, even to those who aren't raising them, is even more reason to overwinter nucs. Insurance policy queens at a decent price with a summer split nuc saves a whole load of heartache and money come spring! I built a double nuc a la Michael Palmer but Hooper has instructions to have a removable divider to give the option to unite bith sides which I think has merit (in fact nihbs website recently post a modified artificial swarm method that requires this design)

[mbc]

I have lots of split boxes with dividers but am coming to the conclusion they've been superseded in function by poly nucs