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Thread: Moray thefts

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    ... People never take it very well when arrested by a citizen and in 8 times I've done it always try to leave . At this point you may use whatever force is necessary to detain him til the police arrive, but because you are not trained in arrest and restraint you get massive leaway on reasonable force in court. For example , 3 broken ribs and a ruptured kidney was considered ok to break the grip on the car my thief was trying to get into. So there's the opportunity for a little personal retribution as well.
    Wow! Must avoid upsetting you SDM!

  2. #22
    Senior Member busybeephilip's Avatar
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    Knowing how to do the finger/hand restraint helps

  3. #23

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    SDM, I think you need to be very careful in recommending people carry out citizens arrests. The risks attached can be very high, to be honest I don't think giving someone 3 broken ribs and a ruptured kidney for trying to steal a car is proportionate to the incident. You were very lucky you were not charged with Serious Assault, especially considering that you have stated that you are a former police officer who would have the skill set to restrain someone without causing injuries consistent with repeated punches to the torso.

    Beejaz, if you are not happy with the quality of the investigation and that you believe you can I'd your thief I would advise you to make a complaint about the quality of the investigation. Not all police officers are of the same quality and you could be in this situation. I would be going down the line of it is this person because I recognise the following characteristics...

  4. #24
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    I was speechless when I saw that last night, so I said nothing ....

    The great majority of the inhabitants of the forum are sensible enough to know that they can't break ribs and rupture kidneys with impunity. Folk who do that should be behind bars.
    Last edited by gavin; 10-09-2015 at 09:09 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    I was speechless.
    Not surprised Gavin, deeply unpleasant.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin View Post
    I was speechless when I saw that last night, so I said nothing ....

    The great majority of the inhabitants of the forum are sensible enough to know that they can't break ribs and rupture kidneys with impunity. Folk who do that should be behind bars.
    You may do whatever is necessary to stop the person you've arrested leaving/resisting. If he didn't try to leave you could not use force, but as I said you are unlikely to encounter any criminal that will simply sit and wait for the police to come. The damage given to him matched exactly what I said I was trying to do, ie. breaking his grip on the car he was trying to escape in. He received no blows to the face or head. If you've ever tried to pull a 6'5" 30yr old male away from something be has a firm grip on you would understand why it is an approved technique to strike(usually under the armpit) I simply started at his kidneys and worked up. Yes I took the opportunity to hurt him more than necessary. I was an arrest and restraint instructor and I know several other ways to do it with less harm, but as a police officer I was not dealing (often) with people stealing "my" property. Those of you who criticise, should probably wait to see how much self control you exhibit when confronted with your own thieves
    The extra damage to your thief is optional, the advice to force the hand of the police by arresting him remains the same.
    Last edited by SDM; 11-09-2015 at 07:02 AM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    ... Yes I took the opportunity to hurt him more than necessary. I was an arrest and restraint instructor and I know several other ways to do it with less harm ...
    Beyond unpleasant ... deliberate thuggery ... abhorrent.
    Last edited by Kate Atchley; 11-09-2015 at 10:05 AM.

  8. #28

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    SDM you should know that the legal standard which operates here in Scotland is that of reasonable force. I'd have thought if you had carried out your arrest as described in this country the Procurator Fiscal could have made a case against you quite easily.

    But perhaps you should remember that this is a beekeeping forum rather than police war stories monthly.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    But perhaps you should remember that this is a beekeeping forum rather than police war stories monthly.
    Amen to that. I could easily add additional comments to SDMs reply which appalled me. However as said by a more learned member this is a beekeeping forum not the retired police officers war story forum. I wouldn't normally reply to an inflammatory post but this one needed challenging. Apologies for lighting the touch paper.

  10. #30
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alclosier View Post
    Apologies for lighting the touch paper.
    No need! I'm glad that you did, I was struggling to find the right words. SDM previously accused someone, on zero evidence, of defrauding HMRC. I warned him that one more and he'd be off the forum for good. That thread has since been tidied up but the threat remains.

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