Over-wintering Queens - Hardware and Methods ...

[Little_John]

I thought a new thread might be appropriate - 'cause this is a topic I'd really like to examine in some detail.

But firstly - thanks to Pete for offering to talk me though his system - am looking forward to that. The sort of experimentation I'm doing is all very well (after all, that's how things sometimes change), but knowledge of a tried and tested system is invaluable.

I'm planning on over-wintering queens in multiple 2-frame nucs with supplementary heating next winter - still ironing-out one or two details before I start building the kit.

Just a thought as you haven't already started building the gear, do you have specific reasons for not looking towards the alternative of using three frames in the nucs? It's not so much that there's an extra comb but rather that there's an extra seam. Personally, although I know that twos work I always feel that three is a far better configuration, closer to what might be 'natural'.

I agree with you 100%, and that is exactly the route I've been taking thus far with my so-called 'six-and-a-half' frame nuc boxes, which can be run in either 2x3 or 1x6 frame modes - for a minimum of 3 frames feels intuitively 'right'.








The reason I'm currently opting for 2-frames for the over-wintering of queens is as a compromise: a) it has to be better than banking queens in cages, and b) how best to pack such nucs into a National box ?

This is what I've come up with so far:




Not shown are 4 access holes drilled into each side of the box, with 3 additional holes in the front which are sealed-off until the box is re-located from the various mating areas onto the insulated chest base for the winter, when access is then gained only from the front.
I'm planning on 8 such boxes per chest (or 'hot-box'), but that's only because I've got some old fibreglass encapsulated farrowing heater plates, the size of which lend themselves to 2 rows of 4. I have 2 such heaters, which would then produce 64 banked queens in total (assuming no losses). Hardly an earth-shattering amount - but it's a start.

The idea isn't totally mine - I got the basic idea from:
http://mbbeekeeping.com/wintering-2-...s-in-manitoba/
although I'm well aware that Manitoba has a far harsher climate than anything I'm liable to experience.

I can foresee lifting the chest lid off and making a quick visual check of each frame feeder (which will have a perspex cover), and replacing the lid in less than a minute or so, assuming that nothing needs topping-up. Very manageable.

Well - that's as far as I've got with this idea. I plan to start building the woodwork over the winter, to be ready for next season - well, that's unless I spot a serious snafu, or someone comes up with a better idea, of course.

Comments, criticisms etc - would be very much appreciated.

LJ

[mbc]

I over winter lots in mini plus boxes, either single boxes with the divider pulled out or a few on double broods-roughly the equivalent of 8 national frames. I expect to lose lots of these if the winter proves tough and am thinking it would probably be more economic to up the percentage of survival of my precious queens by overwintering them in full frame poly nucs, possibly combining the bees and brood from these to make productive units for the osr when utilising the queens.

[Jon]

I am overwintering 16 nucs in Paynes boxes, some only 2 Frames plus dummies and others on the 6. I also have about 15 Apideas which I hope to have built up to at least 8 frames of bees. Got one colony in a correx nuc box as well.

[Little_John]

A couple of conflicting pieces of research (so what's new ... ?) which may be of interest.

The American 'Wilbanks' operation produces between 30 and 40 thousand mated queens annually, and overwinters between 3 and 5 thousand of them in queen cages within queenless colonies housed in a heated building.
http://www.apimondiafoundation.org/f...20WILBANKS.pdf

Edit - forgot to add - the above paper does reveal substantial losses (c. 50%) during one period - but other publications reveal their losses to be more usually between 5 and 20%.


In contrast, the message from Woyke's 1988 research is that injury or death invariably awaits many queens kept in this fashion, and that "it is recommended to keep reserve queens in baby nuclei.":
http://jerzy_woyke.users.sggw.pl/1988_queen_banks.pdf

The plot thickens ...

LJ

[busybeephilip]

The Manitoba idea looks interesting, might be worth trying to get more info on this

[busybeephilip]

This looks worth a read

http://www.beesource.com/resources/u...ney-bee-hives/

[Jon]

In contrast, the message from Woyke's 1988 research is that injury or death invariably awaits many queens kept in this fashion, and that "it is recommended to keep reserve queens in baby nuclei.":

You need to look carefully at the feet as they are so easily damaged.
Most times I have rescued a queen from being balled I have noticed later it has some permanent damage, usually to the feet or a leg joint.

[busybeephilip]

Hi Jon,

Just been looking at swell heating mats - I might try a cheap mat and thermostat to winter an apidea and see what happens, running a cable would be the hardest part

I get lots of poly boxes in work that are dumped which an apidea could sit in very nicely

Phil

[Adam]

Phil, you might have to consider condensation as a problem - depending on how they are put together.

However, I've never got something as small as a single apidea sized mini-nuc through winter; I do have one 3 storey swi-bine version held together with gaffa tapewhich will hopefully get through. For ventillation, they have sealed up the mesh floor with propolis so the only air-way is the entrance as the grilles at the front have been blocked up by plywood that i've slid in place.

[Little_John]

The Manitoba idea looks interesting, might be worth trying to get more info on this

If you've got any questions - just email Lance. His email address is on his 'Contact Info' page. He's very willing to answer questions.

As he uses the 5x2-frame nuc system for mating during the season - spread around the yard - and then relocates those boxes all together on the insulated stand for over-wintering, with a change of entrance hole location as well - AND with 5 closely-spaced entrances per box - I've already asked him whether he's experienced any problems with bees getting lost/ drifting and so forth during the move - but he says no.

I'd still like to see that for myself, as I reckon it could be an issue, even with colour coding at the entrances.

But - for Lance it's a tried and tested system, and he copied the essentials from another bloke for whom it's tried and tested - so I reckon it has to be worth serious consideration.

LJ