Artficial Insemination - viability?

[Castor]

Team,

<dons techie hat>

Does anyone here do AI?

I've been watching the Schley insemination series on Youtube - not beyond he wit of man is it? One less variable managed in mein kampf for an ordered bee population.

So - a blessing or a curse? Do I go out and learn?

[busybeephilip]

Yes, it has its uses.

If your just wanting a few queens for yourself then its better just rearing and open mating from the best stock. If you have a real interest in wanting to achieve and maintain pure lines of bees with known parantage then it the way to go. The process of injecting is easy enough but most persons struggle getting enough drones and harvesting the semen. It looks easy on you tube but that person has had a fair bit of practice.

The other problem is the cost, a rig like in my picture could cost you near £2000 from schelly. You could do a home made version and there are several designs out there if you search the web

Microscope - bi-nocular disecting type about x20

glass tips - I make my own as I have a puller, need a graticule to measure the tip ends

You need gas, you can use BOC and hire a small cylinder if you are intending to do a lot, or use soda stream gas or air pistol/bike puncture repair gas canisters

You need to rear lots of drones of the correct age, drone flight box, be able to prepare solutions and sterization of same

You need to be able to bank queens

Lots to think about

[Castor]

Lots to think about

Thanks for coming back. Lots to think about there is indeed.

For me it's an issue of comparative cost. £2k for the kit is way cheaper and more convenient than an isolated island, although the island appeals to me very much today....

More seriously, where I live, the chance of creating and maintaining an uncontaminated black bee population is close to zero unless I can flood the area over a period of time - several seasons ... AI/II is one possible way or part-way of doing that.

[Little_John]

In an isolated area, 'natural forces' select those drones which successfully mate. In AI, a human being chooses which drones get to 'mate' - is that not a concern ?

LJ

[Little_John]

In an isolated area, 'natural forces' select those drones which successfully mate. In AI, a human being chooses which drones get to 'mate' - is that not a concern ?

LJ

So I guess by no-one commenting, that drone selection by humans isn't seen as being a problem then ?

If that should be your view, then I suggest that a read of:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030927.../KNSCH2003.pdf might change your thinking, for it shows pretty clearly I think, that there are some 'natural forces' at work regarding drone selection about which we know absolutely nothing.

Like most people I held the view that it was simply a case of the strongest drones which got to mate, and so I duly incorporated a variable-speed wind chamber arrangement to 'select' those drones entering my experimental captive mating chamber - but now I realise that this simplistic approach may be seriously flawed. But - what other system of selection could possibly be used ?

Looks like the isolated mating area approach has some hidden advantages to it ...

LJ

[Castor]

That's strange - I thought I had commented......


Interesting stuff LJ. I've been mullling this for a while now about the drone selection process and how to assess it. The popular literature is all about the queen - rarely does the fitness of the drone(s) get a mention.

The fluid dynamics method you used (gotta love that!) is as you say, probably flawed, but also as you say, what else? What other criteria are available to the bee?

Did you achieve mating in the chamber? I wonder if it can be done in a polytunnel?

[Jon]

And don't forget that recent paper which looked at AMM and Carnica populations in Poland.
There was something in play which caused queens to mate predominantly with one race of drone or the other which was not random.

[busybeephilip]

I read about selective race matings in one of the old bibba book (beowolf cooper?) height and temperature was cited.

The Kraus paper is basically confirming that the most fit drones belonging to the dominant colonies get the girl. II selects drones based on any of the characteristics you fancy or if you want to be random then used pooled semen from all you drone colonies. dont forget the procedure was originally developed to study genetics in bees

[Jon]

This is the thread which discussed related stuff such as the AmmCarnica crosses in the Polish study.

[Little_John]

Did you achieve mating in the chamber? I wonder if it can be done in a polytunnel?

I agree with you - drones provide 50% of the genetics, and yet their selection seldom features in discussions.

The problem with using polytunnels or even HUGE glasshouses (it's been tried), is that the drones will pin themselves up against the upper surface as they try to gain altitude. But - there is a way to fool them - check out US Patent #5158497

It's far too early to talk about results - I'm still working on getting troublesome parts of the equipment to work - hopefully next year will see some evidence of whether it's a viable method or not.

People have been trying to achieve this for well over a hundred years without success, so although I'm optimistic (like - you have to be ...), I ain't taking any bets.

LJ