Here's a thing....

[mbc]

I am happy to supply amm from across clawdd Offa, or I know Ludlow beekeepers are breeding natives even closer to you.

[Jon]

What sort of numbers do you plan to produce mbc?
Last 4 years I produced about 50 for myself plus maybe another 100 in the queenrearing group.
This year I am aiming for about 250 from 100 apideas.
Famous last words!

[prakel]

You will have to be very careful with crosses as it is well documented by people like Ruttner that the Carnica x Amm cross is amongst the most aggressive.

Of course Ruttner and his brother were carnica breeders back in the day so maybe there was just a little bias in the original assessment. Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest of respect for his work but he proved that he wasn't infallible with that famous quote about training sheep to fight off wolves.

The Austrian carnica breeders association has an interesting page devoted to their native breeds carnica/amm which mentions historical 'mixed areas' but makes no reference to temper issues.

edit: closer to home Ricky Wilson, Wales (p.40-43, Pembrokeshire Beekeepers Association Breeding Project: The Story so Far) seems happy with carnica X amm bees too.

[mbc]

What sort of numbers do you plan to produce mbc?

What is this word "plan"?

[Jon]

As an irrelevant aside, Robin Moritz who wrote that limitations of morphometry paper which shows it to be pretty much a busted flush was one of Ruttner's PHD students.
The reference I have about the crosses and reciprocal crosses is in the chapter titled 'Races of bee' which Ruttner edited in Dadant - the Hive and the honey bee.

[Jon]

What is this word "plan"?

plan, hope, genetically engineer, pull from your backside, whatever!

[mbc]

plan, hope, genetically engineer, pull from your backside, whatever!

I've filled my nucs barring the Park langstroth half frame nucs and a dozen kielers so I guess I'll just fill them and then see how it goes.
I've over 80 cells out already with my annoying little pin box emptying fast of any green ones from the first two grafts, 47 more cells to put out in about a week and limited places to usefully keep mated queens, so the limiting factor seems to be how many people wish to buy. Sky's the limit if the demand is out there.

[Jon]

I just ordered more pins on ebay. Ever the optimist.
I probably have enough to do some voodoo on that yellow queen in the stack.

[gavin]

I wonder are any of those imports getting sold on when they are supposed to be used for restocking. Who is checking? They don't have ear tags like cattle.

Although originally the Scottish Government support for bee farmers was billed as restocking, it didn't happen like that. As I understand it they received a cold weather payment to do with as they please to improve/maintain their businesses.

[Castor]

So in the space of a day I have gone from no AMM Q sources to two in this very thread - my cup runneth over! Thanks, people.

I shall ponder overnight how best to proceed. I'm proposing to follow the logic published here, but alternative strategies, ridiculous proposals, and deranged fantasies are, of course, very welcome...