In the swing

[fatshark]

My cell bar frame looks very like the one in the video ... 10 cells at a time only. I've also had to do some surgery and carry a Stanley knife which does the trick pretty well. I've also used kitchen scissors to trim them down. I posted a picture of my frame in the queen rearing images thread. That lot went into nucs today and were caged from a day or two after sealing as there was a good flow on and I didn't want them entombed in brace comb.

This year I'm using three frame nucs for mating and testing queen quality. I discovered today that the JzBz cell protectors - the orange ones you spike into the comb - are far too narrow for anything except the smallest queen cells. D'oh!

[Black Comb]

Thanks.
I will cage them earlier next time.
I have a double row and they built comb between the 2 bars as well as above the top one as per your pic.
I wonder if putting a frame of foundation next to the cell bar frame (after they are sealed) would help?

[mbc]

I wonder if putting a frame of foundation next to the cell bar frame (after they are sealed) would help?

I always keep a frame or two of foundation in my cell builders for this very reason.

[mbc]

If you do the math, an apidea bought at £18 used for 5 years can produce 10 queens sold at £30 each. profit £282

A Kieler bought for £10 can produce 10 queens. profit £290.

But it took a few more bees to fill it each year so that probably wipes out the £8 difference!

Interesting perspective Jon, but I'm sure the true value and cost can only be guessed at once the biggest relative cost has been factored in, time! Essentially, both apideas and kielers are very quick to set up, apideas quicker by a fraction just by taking into account the greater number of support colonies needed for the slightly more bees needed for the kieler. The greatest loss in time involved has to be failures, this is where i think the mini plus will win out, as there is a ready supply of frames with brood to split up if some have been overwintered. I know apideas (and kielers) can have extra decks and be overwintered, but I would think its alot more uncertain than the mini plus and also requires additional equipment, and more hassle to keep them in the box until ready to split up for the new seasons cells.
This question of starting mating nucs with some existing brood makes a significant difference to the eventual success rate of getting mated queens from them, and anyone with any experience of the game realises it is so much easier to harvest and re-cell a successful nuc than it is to try again with a failure or shake them out and begin from the beginning with them again. This will compound the advantage of getting success from the first set in any long term cost benefit analysis.
Nucs made up with full size frames of brood and suitable numbers of bees have consistently been the most reliable mating units for me, and were it not for the need for lots of queen to keep up with demand, and also plenty of spares to be able to do plenty of culling, I think I would have stuck to full frame nucs, maybe if cheap poly units had been available when I started I would have.
To avoid excessive drifting when stocking mating nucs from the same apiary blocking them in temporarily is essential. I often use green grass as a time release device, by the time it has wilted enough for them to push it or chew it out, the combination of being stuck in a new box with different smells for a time, and the emergence of a new virgin, is enough to fix them to their new home, mostly!

[Jon]

Time is obviously the critical factor and I think a couple of quid difference per unit is not really that important - maybe for someone working thousands.

The Keiler needs an inner cover with a slot for a queen cell which you have to make yourself which wastes time.

The Payne polynuc with the rotating disk and the open mesh floor is perfect for blocking the bees in for a day or two without problems.

This question of starting mating nucs with some existing brood makes a significant difference...

I am tempted to throw a swarm with a laying queen into a stack of apidea supers each with 5 frames so that I would have a supply of brood to add to the apideas as I make them up. I have about a dozen of the supers.
Anyone ever tried that?

I have about 35 apideas with virgins set out now.
Had 16/18 cells emerge at the weekend.

40 more to sort out before next weekend.

[drumgerry]

This could have gone in the "News" post but it's to do with queen rearing so thought it might be better here.

Today was Day 14 of my first round of grafts. Things have been hectic so I haven't had a chance to go in to see them since Day 5 (the day after grafting). At that point I had 13 started cells. So I was going to make up my apideas today and give them each a queen cell. Got a rather nasty surprise when I opened them up. Only 5 capped cells left. One had hatched and killed the other 7. Not sure why 5 of them escaped. Lesson for today - don't try to get away with not caging capped queen cells! Hatching on Day 14 took me by surprise though. Earliest I've had previously was Day 15.

Anyway plan for this afternoon is to dequeen and de-brood a nuc and give them a frame of grafts. I'll give your system another go later in the Summer Rosie. I broke the queenright cell raiser up this morning.

[fatshark]

I wonder if putting a frame of foundation next to the cell bar frame (after they are sealed) would help?

Perhaps, but I use the Ben Harden system so only have 4 frames above the QE. If they're that keen to draw comb I'd be tempted to put another super between the queenright brood box and the BH box.

Interestingly, I don't recall ever having them build brace comb around hair roller cages despite the fact that these are usually smothered in bees if you have a look at them pre-emergence.

[mbc]

I am tempted to throw a swarm with a laying queen into a stack of apidea supers each with 5 frames so that I would have a supply of brood to add to the apideas as I make them up. I have about a dozen of the supers.
Anyone ever tried that?

I have half a dozen of the langstroth half frame double mating nucs sold by Park beekeeping supplies, and the frames cleverly clip together to make a full langstroth frame and this is exactly what I do to stock these - I've had these mini nucs for years but always leave them till last because I dont really like the two frame format, and in all that time i've not yet managed to amalgamate enough bees and brood from successful nucs to overwinter as a langstroth box.

[prakel]

I have half a dozen of the langstroth half frame double mating nucs sold by Park beekeeping supplies, and the frames cleverly clip together to make a full langstroth frame

ICKO sell a mini plus frame based on the same interlocking idea (for the Swienty version I think, but I understand that the top bar length is the same as for Lyson's) -the connection looks better than that on the type currently sold by Park which I always found a little too tight a fit for my own liking.

http://www.icko-apiculture.com/en/ap...mini-plus.html

admittedly not much use if you're buying the Lyson boxes complete with frames but just a heads up that the option is out there.

[Jon]

I have half a dozen of the langstroth half frame double mating nucs sold by Park beekeeping supplies,

No mating nuc you haven't tried MBC!

I found a laying queen in one of my apideas today so that is the first mated queen of the season (apart from one which superseded its queen a couple of weeks ago)
Last year the first laying queen I got was 30th June.

I have 4 Payne poly nucs set up now with a single frame of bees and sealed brood between the wall and an insulated dummy.
Probably about double the bees you put in an apidea in each one but will be considerably more when the brood emerges.