A willing minion here to get bronzed lol
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brothermoo.wordpress.com
A willing minion here to get bronzed lol
___________________________________
brothermoo.wordpress.com
Whats the definition of pure stock?
Morphometry only defines visable characteristics so you could have black bees that are in fact have a high % of Italian genetics even with Amm mitochondrial DNA the genetics could be mainly Italian or something else
From what I see is happening here is that the black bee has been selected haphazardly on the basis of morphometry and some mt DNA studies. Also, there is no apparent breeding plan where tried and tested lines can be evaluated, just a concentration on the aspect of queen rearing from a range of basically untested queens followed by open mating, these being used again untested for the next and subsequent generations which any beekeeper reading a book can do. This is simply bad science !
Simple question - How far back can "pure" Amm black stock be traced and why are breeding records not publicly available for scrutiny ?
Why should they be?Originally Posted by Top bee
All colony records and tax returns to be posted for scrutiny forthwith.
The Galtee bee breeding group keeps careful records of Amm and maintains lines of bees through instrumental insemination.
So does Eoghan Mac Giolla Coda who works 150 colonies.
Peter Edwards is a meticulous record keeper and he has a similar number of colonies.
The Native Irish Honeybee Society is collecting data on percentage mite infestation from colonies all over Ireland with a view to developing a line of bees which has some mite tolerance. The samples are being processed at NUIG and the work there will include SNP work to try and identify genes associated with varroa tolerance (subject to funding which is the ongoing problem)
Do I detect a whiff of an anti native bee agenda?
If you are a Buckfast breeder put your cards on the table!
I agree with you that wing morphometry and mitochondrial DNA tell next to nothing about whether your stock is native or not.
Not alone in my initial thoughts then!
Do swarms report at customs should they stray across the border ?
VM
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There hasn't been a police/army check at the border in years.
One benefit of the Good Friday Agreement.
Obviously the bees respect their own jurisdiction unless they are entitled to both passports.
A northern bee needs to have a grandparent born before partition in 1921 to be eligible for an Irish passport.
Multiple supersedure doesn't count.
Back in the fifties I was stationed at RAF Ballykelly . We used to go to the borderland dance . The customs men often ambushed us on the return journey to see had any swag
WW
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Ok lets see if this will fly.
BIBBA have a hisotry of not performing. John Stoakely and I invited the powers that be at the time to Scotland and up they came gave their speil and were amazed by the morphometry of the bee samples on hand then went south again and never heard from again. Go figure.... then John sadly died very early.
So........ why not set up a web site, have private access to it, and exchange eggs/virgins/queens. ?
Just leave the talking shops out of the loop and get on with it?
PH
Whilst I have a degree of sympathy for your point about BIBBA PH I think the issue is greater than just some like minded people exchanging a few queens between themselves. My opinion is that we need an organisation to be in place to make wholesale changes to the way we go about things. If you see the information Calum put up about how they operate in Bavaria then it's clear that another way is possible.
Which brings me to the organisations that we actually have. BIBBA and the SBA. I think the reality is that those two are not inclined to any radical changes. A better example to follow would be the NIHBS set up by Jon and co in Ireland. If anything real is going to happen in Scotland (what happens south of the border isn't something I'm going to consider here) then we need a similar body. I'm happy to give my time to it but it needs a groundswell of enthusiasm and commitment if it's going to happen. The Scottish government in its ignorance takes on faith seemingly everything it's told about beekeeping by whomsoever seems to have thought up some get rich quick save the bees scheme. What I'm suggesting is that with an equivalent to the NIHBS in Scotland we could counter such misinformation and lobby for the changes necessary to give our native bees a fighting chance.
Colonsay was a great start but so much more could be done!
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