Distribution map of native and near-native bees

[Stromnessbees]

How much information do we have so far about the distribution of native and near native bees?

Could we put it together and create a simple map like this one for Germany?

http://nordbiene.de/hier-fliegen-dunkle-bienen.htm

Apparently it is run by the webmaster who enters the placemarks.

We might need to use 2 different colours, one for the near-natives and one for the very pure ones.

Doris

[Jimbo]

Hi Doris,

There has been interest in this by John Durkacz and myself. John would like to repeat the work by John and Morna Stokley where they showed colonies in Scotland of pure native breeds. We did discuss the possibility of mapping the colonies with Donna Clark from Moray.
I agreed to check wings using Drawwing for beekeepers from the West and John would do the East. We still need somebody for the North and South
I did a survey of 10 beekeepers and 35 colonies in my area in 2007 and plotted the distribution. Beekeepers come and go so I repeated the survey again in 2009 and found the distribution had changed to the detriment of the near native AMM. It would still be good to identify pure black colonies so if anybody has any ideas on how to set up the survey I would be interested.

Jimbo

[Stromnessbees]

I wouldn't make it too complicated:

The basic map should be easy enough to set up, and then anybody with dark bees who wants to be on the map sends their details.

I would volunteer to do it but have lots of things on at the moment and shouldn't get involved in anything new just now.

Anybody else interested?

Doris

[Jimbo]

Hi Doris,

The possible way forward with this is for the SBA exec committee to consider this project and through the SBA association secretaries and area reps collect the samples from club apairies and from their members. The bee inspectors may possibly also be recruited to collect samples.The samples could be sent to a central collection point and stored in a freezer until there is time for the analysis. A nice winter project. The SBA could also try to get funding for such a project i.e through the Co op to pay for postage etc. The results could also be sent to BIBBA as part of their Discovery project.

Jimbo

[gavin]

Google Maps doesn't look too difficult. Maybe I could put something on the home page?

But what? Is a map of Amm records enough? How do we define sufficient purity to make it onto the list - morphometry only? Personally I think that eyeballing a colony tells you a lot, and adds something to morphometry data. Could we make a link from a Google Map placemark (made suitably slightly vague) to an image of the plot, or even better of the bees themselves?!

But what would we get from this? A map of dots that just show where the enthusiasts are? That is one reason why Jim's more ambitious plans make sense - gathering a larger sample of data.

What about recording *all* bees known to us - are they Amm, near Amm, mongrel, mostly Buckfast, carnica, caucasica, ligustica, could we all tell the difference? Wouldn't that be more informative? Something for the wider SBA membership too? I've wondered about trying to make a decent guide to the races for publication on the site, as it is hard to find the information anywhere.

An SBA group would be good. Is John D going to propose this?

best wishes

Gavin

[Stromnessbees]

Gavin and Jimbo

If you try to do a perfect job here, which you both are of course used to due to your professions, we'll never get this done. All we want at the moment is a rough idea of places with native bees to start with. The refinement will come over the years. Once there are a few dots on the map people can start to get in touch with each other and more (and more accurate) information will follow as the ball starts rolling. A bit like this forum it will develop it's own dynamic once it's given a chance.

Doris

[gavin]

Ha! You've got me sussed. Except ... here's a very imperfect job:

The Native Honeybee Distribution Map

Let's try it after shrinking via TinyUrl.

OK, its working now. Really scary though! I've seen Doris' address in a periodical that dropped through the door in the last few days, and I've deliberately plonked the link a couple of hundred metres away from her place. If you keep clicking on the map, you can see the garden plants that her bees will have access to - fuchsias and sycamore must be two high on the list, plus that yellow-flowered silver leaved sprawling thing. If you've clicked on the map and arrived at street view then just birl the street view around a bit and you can see a man lifting potatoes!

Truly weird.

I've now added a Tayside site.

[Trog]

What about recording *all* bees known to us - are they Amm, near Amm, mongrel, mostly Buckfast, carnica, caucasica, ligustica, could we all tell the difference? Wouldn't that be more informative? Something for the wider SBA membership too? I've wondered about trying to make a decent guide to the races for publication on the site, as it is hard to find the information anywhere.

Really good idea to have an identification guide ... with photos and points to help identification such as are found in bird guides.

[Jimbo]

Hi Gavin/Doris.

A good starting point for this would be to repeat the Stokley's work that was done in I think the late 80's. John Durkacz has I think all the original data although I don't know if it was plotted on a map. John did send me a set of results from this study to look at taken from a colony in Tongue in the 80's? in Sutherland which was 100% AMM. The question is. Is there still pure AMM in this area and in the other areas that the Stokley's tested.
The method of testing has changed with the advent of computers and scanners so I would first do morphometry to do a quick check and if the results looked promising use the other charateristics to determine if they are pure. The problem with all these projects is getting the beekeepers on board to give you a sample to test.

Jimbo

[Stromnessbees]

Hi Gavin,

again you seem to be ahead of me:

I've seen Doris' address in a periodical that dropped through the door

???

Fuchsia and sycamore are spot on. Back at my proper address you'll see my car with the Ghanaian flag inside and a window-cleaner in action on his ladder.

Well, this looks like a useful start. The google map is a bit over-accurate, and to use the markers off-centre is a good idea.

So how do we add sites, do we contact you in order to get them added?
And where is the best place for this map, we can't just leave it in this thread?

I also like Jimbo's idea of an identification-guide for the different types. I sometimes wonder how dark a bee has to be to be a dark bee?

Doris