Using invertase

[gavin]

Perhaps one thing to add to this is that the liquid sucrose option - which you can buy in bulk if you want - isn't feasible given that it has a shelf life of two weeks. Those who prefer to buy liquid feed for ease of handling need their sugar inverted for that reason, never mind what does the bees good and what they prefer.

> Can of worms

Are you sayin' that worms make diastase too?

Thanks for your edits, Duncan. Duncan did make the point that honeys contaminated with sugar feed are detectable due to a low diastase activity. Eight Schade units (a measure of the ability to digest starch) is normal for fresh, unheated honey.

And yes, the mark-up as bee feed gets sold on is quite remarkable. Thanks C4U . If I was still a garden scale beekeeper I'd be using the dry sugar from discount retailers at 39p per kilo rather than the wet stuff still being sold at about £1 per kilo.

[The Drone Ranger]

I guess in the quantities you need C4u you would have to buy it in
I have used Ambrosia and the previous stuff Thornes sold which was made from corn syrup (that one did ferment)
Can't say I was convinced by either but glad to see you are enthusiastic about invert syrup

Ambrosia being a bit more concentrated at 73% is obviously good as the bees will have less to do to get to 85%
Fondant is even more concentrated but I suppose the bees need water to make best use of that

Sugar was about 57pence/Kg this year from supermarket delivered free

Fondabee from Paynes is £4 for 2.5kg so about £1.60/kg

Can't say what the fill your own container price at Thornes is at moment because don't know( the fuel cost of driving there and back needs factored in)
Delivered Invert syrup is £20 for 5ltr that's £4 /ltr and at 73% that's £5.47 per kg
If you buy Thornes 25kg it could be £3.29 /Kg ?

Appreciate the point about middle men and adding cost and that's why on a small scale it doesn't make sense to buy Ambrosia now

[gavin]

Sugar was about 57pence/Kg this year from supermarket delivered free

Currently 39p/kg at Aldi - http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/gran...p-aldi-2304593

Farmfoods has been advertising at that price since winter but I'm not sure if they still are.

[mbc]

I feed just over a ton of sugar - mixed up at home- and disagree about the comparable price, my ton of dry sugar being much cheaper than I could get a ton of ambrosia etc.

[fatshark]

Interesting price comparisons. I'm a fondant-only user and didn't need any this year as I bought in bulk in 2014 (at a higher price ... D'oh!). Our BKA was selling it at £9.45/12.5kg in 2014, a bit less this year. As DR states, the bees will probably need water to process it. However, there might well be enough on the sidewalls and crown board of the hive? (I'm sure someone smarter than me could work how much they need). I added single blocks of fondant in mid-September and all colonies have finished these, with a few getting another half block. With the weather turning a week or so ago they've slowed right down and I'll be removing any remaining in the next few days. For the (rank) amateur I reckon fondant offers a good mix of value and ease of use. It also stores really well.

[The Drone Ranger]

That's a good price for fondant Fatshark
I was under the impression that Ambrosia fondant was inverted sugar or special in some way, but somebody on another forum straightened me out and said its just plain old fondant, identical to the fondant sold by bakery suppliers in bigger blocks
Is that the case ?

[gavin]

BFP Wholesale's Bakers Fondant was £8 something for 12.5kg when I bought some last early spring.

> Is that the case ?

Near enough.

The Beekeeping Forum have this helpful, knowledgeable guy called 'into the lion's den'. We have one called Calluna4U, and I'm very grateful for that .

Three and a half years ago he wrote this:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/arc...p/t-15715.html

'Ambrosia is a fondant. Can't see the point of paying it's price as making your own is easy if you only have a few hives.

Ambrosia is actually just a collective brand name for the various bee feed products produced by Nordzucker in Germany.

They have syrups, fondants, and powders.

Similarly the bigger brother and market leader in the trade, Sudzucker, make Apiinvert, Apifonda,and Apipuder.

Other sugar companies have a similar assortment. Most fondant is made by Sudzucker or their subsidiaries, or by Belgosuc, and just packaged in the branding of other companies. (I have visited two plants in Belgium, one of which is a Sudzucker plant making most of the fondant brands sold in the UK which you might think to be British makes, and seen that happening) The difference between Ambrosia fondant and Apifonda, at least at the time I visited the plant, was nothing more than which roll of plastic preprinted film they had on the machine.

The specialist bee fondants do vary slightly from the standard bakers fondant, being manufactured in such a way as to have a smaller crystal size. the theory is that this aids direct ingestion rather than reconstitue to liquid then ingest. The way in which we feed fondant in this country, and the climate, probably mean that the extra money is not worth paying. ( have used many tonnes over the years of standard bakers white fondant and special formula types............not a scrap of a difference )

Getting a box or two of white fondant from your local bakery, or from their wholesaler, is the easiest and usually most economic way to go for small purchasers. Making it yourself? Well their are plenty of anecdotes about it being just as good, but I remain unconvinced of this. Hmf in home made product is always a risk, and hmf is toxic to bees, albeit that in fondant it will be at modest levels. Bees will tolerate it and prosper most seasons, but, if it ever does, your trouble will come in a cold winter with a long period with no flight.'

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks Gavin
I am not allowed to make anything like fondant etc in our kitchen since the time I manufactured my own sodium acetate
It's the stuff in hand warmers
The idea was to have a thin bag between two layers of the plastic wax containing sodium acetate
When its triggered it rapidly goes to 50C which would kill varroa but the bee larva can survive this temp
The stuff stays warm for about an hour or so

Anyway with two captured varroa in a container and a hand sprayer containing water at 80C I had worked out the distance and tested that the water would be at 45C after leaving the spray nozzle and reaching the varroa

Sprayed them -- they died -- big cheer -- small funeral service
Half an hour later they were alive again
Fury --- garlic -- failure followed by a stake through their undead hearts

The` sodium acetate involved reducing a large quantity of vinegar and baking soda to crystals by boiling
Admittedly a bit pungent but hey this is science

[fatshark]

£8.?? is a great price. Nice one. Is it stored somewhere local?

Great story DR ... here's a way to save your marriage (totally safe for work).

I fear my kitchen bee exploits are over as the fitters are here at the moment installing all sorts of new shiny things

[Feckless Drone]

I fear my kitchen bee exploits are over as the fitters are here at the moment installing all sorts of new shiny things

Nah! We know you have a shed now.