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Thread: Your gallery of 2D plots

  1. #301

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    I have always fancied the idea of just scanning 1 drone's wings or making some measurements of one drone
    You would have to trap the little devils above a QX or something to make sure you had the right ones for the hive

    how many queens have you managed so far then Jon

  2. #302
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I have probably scanned wings on about 100 colonies and I have done some for other people as well.
    If you wanted to check drone wings you could select drones emerging from brood to be sure of avoiding the drifters.
    Sounds like I don't like the drifters but they had a few good tunes.
    The Undertones covered 'Under the Boardwalk.

  3. #303
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Wing morphometry: it has a place. It is just that there has been a lot of naive interpretation around. I'm using it again along with checking the range of the other characteristics of bee races/subspecies.
    Last edited by gavin; 21-07-2015 at 08:13 AM. Reason: hiving stuff off to the 'Mating 2015' thread

  4. #304
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    It certainly has a place.
    It can pick up hybridisation in samples which look ok superficially on other morphometric variables.
    The naive interpretation would be sampling all your colonies and breeding from those with the highest percentage wings in the Amm box with a view to increasing the percentage of Amm genetics in your stock.
    Reading through the bibba bee improvement magazine for the past 5 or 6 years this is certainly the way some were using it.

    Speaking of which, has anyone had a magazine recently? Seems like a long tine since one dropped through my letter box.

  5. #305
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    Bit of a revival of an old thread.

    I am having real trouble with DrawWing not letting me do the step by step analysis. Can anyone give the definitive order to open files and when to click the "step by step" green tick etc ? I've spoken to Jimbo and neither of us can figure out what is happening.

    Cheers !

  6. #306

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    To Run DrawWing in Step-by-step mode (preferred)
    Click the Step-by-step' box (green tick appears in it).
    Open the (first) image file with DrawWing.
    Click on 'Wing/Apis Junctions' (or use the button on the toolbar, or shortcut Ctrl+a)
    Adjust the threshold so that the wings are solid black on a white background and click OK.
    DrawWing now presents you with the first wing. Adjust the threshold as necessary so that the veins are clear - it is better that they are slightly too dark rather than too light. Click OK.
    DrawWing now shows the wing with the landmarks positioned to the best of its ability.
    Check that numbers 0 - 6 and 18 are roughly in the right places. If any have not been placed, drag them into position but do not worry about accuracy at this point.
    Drag the magnification slider on the right-hand side of the screen upwards to its maximum position.
    Use the mouse scroll wheel to move up to the top of the image and check landmark 6.
    Hold down the Alt key and scroll 'up' again. This causes the image to scroll across the screen. Move landmark 5 on to the junction of the veins.
    Keep the Alt key down and scroll across to check landmark 18.
    Keep the Alt key down and scroll back to check landmark 2.
    Now release the Alt key and scroll down to check 0, 1, 3 and 4. 0 and 3 will almost certainly need moving to the centre of the vein junctions.
    After completing each wing click on the 'Next step' button (Green arrow), say 'yes' to save the wing data.
    Another wing will then be presented until all the wings in the scan have been processed.
    If the wings were scanned in several batches, repeat the process for each scanned image.
    Peter Edwards

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    To Run DrawWing in Step-by-step mode (preferred)
    Click the Step-by-step' box (green tick appears in it).
    Open the (first) image file with DrawWing.
    Click on 'Wing/Apis Junctions' (or use the button on the toolbar, or shortcut Ctrl+a)
    Adjust the threshold so that the wings are solid black on a white background and click OK.
    DrawWing now presents you with the first wing. Adjust the threshold as necessary so that the veins are clear - it is better that they are slightly too dark rather than too light. Click OK.
    DrawWing now shows the wing with the landmarks positioned to the best of its ability.
    Check that numbers 0 - 6 and 18 are roughly in the right places. If any have not been placed, drag them into position but do not worry about accuracy at this point.
    Drag the magnification slider on the right-hand side of the screen upwards to its maximum position.
    Use the mouse scroll wheel to move up to the top of the image and check landmark 6.
    Hold down the Alt key and scroll 'up' again. This causes the image to scroll across the screen. Move landmark 5 on to the junction of the veins.
    Keep the Alt key down and scroll across to check landmark 18.
    Keep the Alt key down and scroll back to check landmark 2.
    Now release the Alt key and scroll down to check 0, 1, 3 and 4. 0 and 3 will almost certainly need moving to the centre of the vein junctions.
    After completing each wing click on the 'Next step' button (Green arrow), say 'yes' to save the wing data.
    Another wing will then be presented until all the wings in the scan have been processed.
    If the wings were scanned in several batches, repeat the process for each scanned image.
    Hi Peter - thanks for reply. The trouble is right a t the start of the instructions unfortunately. If I click step by step the green tick (with the rightward facing arrow) stays grey. I have spoken to Jim (jimbo of this parish!) and a few others having the same issue like John Durkacz.

    Anyway around this or is it a software issue do you think ?

    GG

  8. #308

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    Odd - never experienced that.

    I would uninstall and then re-install the software.

    Best wishes

    Peter
    Peter Edwards

  9. #309
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Mine stopped working when I bought a new laptop running Windows 8.1 but given that wing morphometry does not actually correlate with underlying DNA is is of very limited use to the average bod working with a part hybrisided bee population. About the only use I can think of is picking out a lookalike hybrid from a predominantly pure race population but there are few in the UK working with populations like this. Andrew Abrahams would be one example but his population is closed anyway so should not be at risk from hybridisation.
    I had some plots which have 100% of the wings in the Amm cuadrant but when the bees were tested via mitochondrial DNA they were C lineage not M.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Mine stopped working when I bought a new laptop running Windows 8.1 but given that wing morphometry does not actually correlate with underlying DNA is is of very limited use to the average bod working with a part hybrisided bee population. About the only use I can think of is picking out a lookalike hybrid from a predominantly pure race population but there are few in the UK working with populations like this. Andrew Abrahams would be one example but his population is closed anyway so should not be at risk from hybridisation.
    I had some plots which have 100% of the wings in the Amm cuadrant but when the bees were tested via mitochondrial DNA they were C lineage not M.
    I downloaded 0.45 version again and selected "repair drawwing" and it now works step by step.

    Its useful amongst a range of other diagnostic tools as long as limitations are understood.

    Does give some cracking images of wings as well !

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