Your gallery of 2D plots

[Jon]

Keep us informed of any published work in the area, especially if there is an English summary but as Jimbo said, there is always Google translate.

I do think care is needed with regard to morphometry. 1.7 for CI is very strict as people here are allowing up to 2.1
If you select breeder queens based exclusively on the best morphometry it is inevitable that you are going to be selecting to some extent for wing pattern only unless the linkage with underlying AMM DNA is 100% and that is highly unlikely. the genes for wing vein pattern could well be located on a single chromosome.

With my own bees, I discount as breeders any colonies which have any bees with yellow bands and any colonies which have a high percentage of wings points well outside the AMM criteria. Some people here keep Buckfast and there are also a lot of yellow mongrel colonies. As yellow is dominant over black, it is likely to show up in the workers if the virgin queen has encountered any Buckfast or yellow mongrel drones - so I use that as an indicator.
Most of the scattergrams I have posted in the last couple of months, I would consider to be acceptable as a source of breeding material but even more important are factors such as low aggression and low swarming tendency and this has to be judged later on when a colony is near full strength.

[fidan]

We also put 2.1. 1.7 - this is my dream
For beekeepers now available DNA analysis. Since 2012.
Russian Academy of Sciences in the city of Ufa, Laboratory of Genetics doing DNA tests about 13 euros per colony.

[Jon]

13 euros is affordable to test colony genetics but we do not have an option like that at the moment unfortunately.

[Peter]

Hi Fidan

I have followed some of the posts but not replied - very busy as there is so much to do after moving house.

I have the CI value for Carnica at a minimum of 2.4. On Morphplot I set the upper limit as 3 as that is the top of the graph. As A.m.m. breeders we are obviously not interested in anything in that sort of range. However, Phillip Maier from Austria has produced a modified version of MorphPlot specifically for carnica - that allows for CI up to 6! It is available on the Links page (see below).

On the positioning of points, it is essential to be very accurate as a small error can make a significant difference. This is where DrawWing comes into its own because you can work easily with a greatly magnified image. Remember that the point should be at the centre of the junction - Roger Patterson made a good analogy when he said to think of it as the junction of three roads - imagine a line down the centre of each road and the point is where they all meet.

Agree that morphometry is not everything - we assess all colonies visually (recording the results in the Stud Book) and only bother with morphometry on the best. Initially I scan 30 wings (15 under each of two microscope slides giving 2 files) and have a look at the results after I have analysed the first 15. If that is poor I stop there and then as I know that things will not improve!

Finally, can I ask that you do not use the download page on the BIBBA website. Dave Cushman, bless him, made the system so complicated that he was unable to maintain it and I think that it is still out of date. The latest versions of DrawWing, MorphPlot (both versions) and Stud Book are all here:
http://www.stratfordbeekeepers.org.u...tm#Morphometry
Detailed instructions for scanning using DrawWing and MorphPlot are on the instruction sheet in MorphPlot.
Happy New Year to you all.

[fidan]

Hi Peter, Jon.

Remember that the point should be at the centre of the junction - Roger Patterson made a good analogy when he said to think of it as the junction of three roads - imagine a line down the centre of each road and the point is where they all meet.

Thanks for the detailed answer. Roger Patterson very lucidly explained the issue positioning points. We still do.
Thanks for the links. DrawWing I tried, but I failed. Now working on the quality of the scan. I will try to learn DrawWing.
But questions remain on some points. I will formulate them later. You may be able to help.

Can I ask - who helped to test our program for morphometry? Based on Exel. Positioning points on tpsDig2.
I have prepared a manual translation to English. (Via Google - thanks to him.)
I really want to remember my school years and to learn English. English for the beekeeper.

With a group of friends we want to educate our colleagues morphometry. For this we must know the subject well. I thank all my colleagues for their help.

I think I began to understand the Scottish humor. Thank you Jon. And of course, we're friends.
Happy New Year to you all.

[Jon]

I think you need to scan at at least 2400 dpi
I scan with the wings between two microscope slides, usually about 15 wings per slide.
sample quality here:

img246.jpg

img246_0L.dw.png
cubital_index 1.4317
precubital_index 3.2581
Hantel_index 0.7642
discoidal_shift -5.2007
img246_1L.dw.png
cubital_index 1.3950
precubital_index 2.5927
Hantel_index 0.9079
discoidal_shift -3.7773
img246_2L.dw.png
cubital_index 1.5141
precubital_index 2.9878
Hantel_index 0.8491
discoidal_shift -3.2822

one of the wings, the middle one (246-1L) with points marked

wing246-1L.jpg

Scattergram of this colony:

col.90.jpg

[fidan]

Hi, Jon.
Yes. I agree. I will do so.
Thanks for the pics. I'm interested.

[Jimbo]

Hi Fidan,

If you go back to the post 267 and follow Jon's link. There are detailed intructions on how to use Drawwing. The scanner used was an Epson v100 but you can also use an Epson V330. The instructions are from the screen shots when I do my wing morphometry. I also use these instructions when I am training (educating) other beakeepers on the use of Morphometry

[fidan]

Hi Jimbo,
Thank you. I'll do it. There will be questions on certain points.

[Hors]

Hi, ich bin hier neu. Fidan! wir kennen uns aus dem russischen Forum.
Ich benutze auch DrawWing, jedoch ist mir das französische ApiClass lieber.
Was halten meine irischen Bienen-Kollegen davon?
Grüße, Horst

Hi, I'm new here. Fidan! We know U.S. from the Russian forum. I use too DrawWing, but Mir is a French ApiClass prefer. What do think of my Irish colleagues Bee?...