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Thread: Horner method for controlled mating

  1. #11
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Sounds to me that Rob Jones might be the person best placed to comment on how well this method works … if, as Rosie says, he's well-practised it might well suggest it is worth pursuing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatshark View Post
    Sounds to me that Rob Jones might be the person best placed to comment on how well this method works … if, as Rosie says, he's well-practised it might well suggest it is worth pursuing.
    Well that's your holiday sorted then, fatshark . Pre-reg here. Be there, or bee less informed

  3. #13
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Absolutely no idea about this stuff but there is a short paragraph in 'Breeding Queens' by Gilles Fert which is sort of loosely related to the thread subject so I thought I'd mention it:

    Over years of controlled mating in South-West France we observed behavioural differences between races. Ligustica drones fly in the late morning while caucasica drones fly in the afternoon. So it is possible to release the virgin queens according to the fertilisation required. But as with all natural mating, this method is only approximate and can never give the same certainty of control as instrumental insemination.
    I also seem to remember that Wedmore in his 'Manual' discusses it to some extent but don't have a copy to hand at present.
    Last edited by prakel; 17-12-2013 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Hi Prakel … have you got the Gilles Fert book in English or French? I've been trying to get hold of an English copy for ages (my schoolboy French enables me to stay, er, hydrated but little more). Should anyone have a copy they no longer want please PM me.

    A near neighbour selects bees for following and aggression … a novel approach and not one I'd recommend. I'd like my queens to have as little to do with his drones as possible. I suspect, like Giles Fert suggests, I may investigate the offerings from Dr. Schley …

  5. #15
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Hi fatshark, mine's in English but I've had it for quite a while now, it's one of those books which are deceptive in the sense that it doesn't 'look' much at first glance but it actually holds a lot of information. Have you tried contacting him direct via his website in case he still has some copies himself?

  6. #16
    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Hi prakel … tried that and he has none left. I've also asked Northern Bee books and one or two of the other collectors to look out for a copy. No doubt one will turn up in due course. Although there's nothing fundamentally different about the way most people raise queens it's the little tips and tricks - often mentioned in passing - that are particularly interesting. I've recently re-read Laidlaw and Eckert and found stuff I'd either missed before or forgotten.

  7. #17
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatshark View Post
    Hi prakel … tried that and he has none left...
    I'm amazed that such a relatively recent book is so difficult to get hold of. A reprint/update must surely be in order.

  8. #18
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    The section from Wedmore's 'Manual':

    Mating at Abnormal Hours

    299. The weather being favourable, both queens and selected drones may be stimulated to fly abnormally early on a sunny day by stimulative feeding at 7am. to 8am., leaving other colonies severely alone or giving them extra shade overnight. Flying may be expected between 9 and 10am (GMT).

    300. Alternatively, and with greater certainty, the hives containing the queens and the selected drones may be closed before 10am and put in a cool place, free ventilation being provided through floor ventilators or the like. Feeders are placed in position and stimulative food given about half an hour before the drones from freely exposed colonies are known to cease flying. At the end of the half-hour the closed colonies are exposed on their original stands, which are best put in a position facing towards the sun late in the day, and opened. There will be great activity of the bees and mating generally occurs forthwith. If necessary, a second attempt may be made in a similar manner the next day.

    301. Some close entrances with queen excluder only, thus allowing workers free flight and confining only the queens and drone. This is not so effective in securing flight of the queen at the desired time.

    302. It is good to provide the hives containing the virgin queens with a supply of two or three dozen selected drones of suitable age (see 177), thus avoiding the necessity of closing the hives in which the drones are bred.

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    I find it interesting how these days we tend to think only in terms of Drone Congregation Areas, whereas in several of the 'old' beekeeping books I've read, references are made to 'Apiary Vicinity Mating' - with some beekeepers actually witnessing mating before their very eyes.

    Indeed, I remember reading about one guy's successful experiment at captive mating in which he harnessed a virgin to a length of fine silk thread tied to a long pole.

    Perhaps hot-footing (or should that be 'hot-winging' ?) it over to a DCA is less attractive to drones released late in the day, and maybe on balance they consider they've better chances of sexual suicide much closer to home ?

  10. #20
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    No basis for this but sort of prompted by Little_John's post, I wonder whether there might be an improved performance of drones that have been on the wing for a while as a general physiological warm up -flying to a DCA or just 'out and about' prior to AVM?

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