Horner method for controlled mating

[fatshark]

The "Horner method" is a means of controlling the flight times of queens and drones to achieve selective mating. It involves allowing the virgin to orientate to her location prior to her mating flight, then delaying the release of virgins and drones until feral drones have largely left drone congregation areas. This was in Australia, but others might substitute 'feral' for any drone with undesirable genetics - Italian, Russian, Buckfast, stroppy, black, yellow, red, blue … take your pick (and no offence meant ).

Has anyone tried this? I see that Pete L has posted on this on the BKF.

In this article the genetics of drones and offspring were tested and it appears to provide about 85% control over matings i.e. this number were of the desirable type.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Fatshark hadn't heard of this before -- very interesting stuff

[busybeephilip]

Yes,
I have heard of this, its based on drones from different races flying at different times of the day, very hit and miss. eg Amm drones will fly at lower temps so will fly before Mediterranean races and fly later into the afternoon

[Jon]

That's the theory Phil but I am not sure there is strong evidence for different races flying at different times.
Must dig around for evidence of that.
If you use Apideas this would all be much simpler as you just keep the excluders on until you want to let the virgins out to orientate.

I once left an apidea closed up by mistake for 11 days.
When I opened it the virgin was the first bee out the front and I found eggs in it 2 or 3 days later.

[Rosie]

Rob Jones in Pembrokeshire talks about time isolation and letting virgins and drones out together in the evening. If you come to the BIBBA conference next year you might get chapter and verse from someone who is well practised in the method.

[The Drone Ranger]

I read the article as tricking the queens and drones into flying after the drone congregation areas were clear of other local drones
It doesn't seem to depend on a predisposition to fly in poor conditions or in the dark or such stuff
Just as Fatshark says in the OP

[mbc]

Drones fly on most days of the season and my virgins are free to fly whenever they want but I still sometimes have to wait a month before they get together, I simply cannot see it working very well here.

[fatshark]

Rosie
I'm hoping to be there … even more so if there's a chance to discuss this sort of thing. However, since the timing coincides with schools returning/cheap flights/Apiguard treatment there's a good chance I'll be "encouraged" to be somewhere a little warmer and drier than Llangollen

mbc
Perhaps being 'free to fly' whenever is actually the problem here … if - as Jon suggests - a VQ restricted from flying is desperate to get out and mate this can be exploited. In the same way, it's clear from the paper that drones (from the donor colonies) are also restricted from flying until a) the sentinel hive no longer has flying drones and b) the VQ's are released. In this way things are synchronised.

Of course, it will also be weather dependent … assuming drones normally return at 5ish it would still need a warm, sunny, calm evening. Not impossible.

[Beefever]

But if the drones and queens fly (say) 2 til 5pm and you let yours out at 6pm, haven’t they missed the boat for that day?

On the other hand, maybe because time is short and the urge is strong, apiary vicinity mating is the order of the day!

[mbc]

But if the drones and queens fly (say) 2 til 5pm and you let yours out at 6pm, haven’t they missed the boat for that day?

On the other hand, maybe because time is short and the urge is strong, apiary vicinity mating is the order of the day!

More likely poorly completed matings resulting in inferior queens IMO.