Queen Rearing pdfs

[The Drone Ranger]

It's pretty common for a swarm queen to be superseded relatively quickly as she is often getting long in the tooth if it is the prime swarm.

yep I'll have to see if she makes it to spring

[nemphlar]

Apologies Prakel, I tend to assume that if I'm aware of something in the bee world it's common knowledge.
I found the Ben harden method on Dave Cushmans web site a few years ago, a standard brood is used,but with internals reduced to 5 frames, this sits above the queen excluder with basically a frame of food, brood a feeder and your grafts, for the hobby beekeeper small scale queen breeding without the loss of a stock.
I've only ever managed to averaged around 4 to 6 cells starting with around a brood and half, which is fine for my needs but 10 would be better.
Having followed the link on cloake board method I did wonder if a combination might tip the balance, Trying to breed queens from a weak stock would be waste of time, when I mentioned smaller hives it was meant in comparison to the massive double brood boxes seen in the link

[beejazz]

I get what you mean nemphlar, I'm thinking however there may be too small a space with the Ben Harden set up since the cloake board relies on bleeding off bees from the bottom colony by turning the hive 180 degrees so that bees fly from the bottom to the top entrance. (I think!) I tried with not much success the BH method this year, and will try a cloake board this year.

[prakel]

Hi nemphlar, my failing for never really reading up on the Harden method, unusual for me actually -I read almost as much about bees as I read about my other hobby.

On the subject of starter size, Joe Latshaw has some interesting thoughts on the subject here.

[prakel]

a standard brood is used,but with internals reduced to 5 frames, this sits above the queen excluder with basically a frame of food, brood a feeder and your grafts, for the hobby beekeeper small scale queen breeding without the loss of a stock.
I've only ever managed to averaged around 4 to 6 cells starting with around a brood and half, which is fine for my needs but 10 would be better.
Having followed the link on cloake board method I did wonder if a combination might tip the balance, Trying to breed queens from a weak stock would be waste of time, when I mentioned smaller hives it was meant in comparison to the massive double brood boxes seen in the link

May be worth thinking about the Kefuss 'hybrid cloake board' mentioned in some of the earlier posts -you're thinking may, if I understand correctly, be heading in the same direction as Mr Kefuss'.

[Rosie]

You might like to consider my method. It has worked well for me for 2 seasons. Before this I used a similar system with success that depended on 2 queens in the hive.

P1000589.jpg


Below is a summary of the system timetable used in 2013.

· Put queen excluders and 2 half brood boxes over a standard colony when the first supers would normally be fitted.
· Wait for bees to start to putting nectar in the half boxes and mature drones are available.
· day 1 - move one frame of open brood and one of pollen up into one of the top half boxes.
· day 2 - slip a queen cell frame between the brood and pollen frame in the half box and leave existing nectar bearing ones in the other two (outermost) positions. The national half boxes hold 5 frames each. Put a plastic film over the queen excluder and under the half box with the brood etc. Leave the other half box on its own queen excluder and accessible to the bees below. Above the two half boxes will be a crown board or supers.
· day 3 - charge the queen cell frame with young larvae by either grafting or any other method. (So far I have only tried the grafting method)
· day 4 or 5 - remove the plastic film (leaving the queen excluder in place) so that the queen pheromones have normal access to the box again.

Explanation When the brood frame is moved up into one of the half boxes it attracts nurses from below. When the sheet is put under this box the queen pheromone is largely cut off but the bees can still enter from the top, either through the bee space under the crown board or via the super above. If a super is present I like to fit it the wrong way round so that its frames are at 90^o to the brood frames. I suspect this aids the bees' passage through the system. When the grafted larvae are introduced the bees accept them straight away and can use the nectar and pollen to produce royal jelly for them. After a day or two the queen cells are well underway and on removal of the plastic film the bees continue to nurture the new queens. I find that removing the film after two days is more reliable than removing it after one although very few, if any, are abandoned either way. I usually start the process again 2 weeks from day one and use either of the half boxes, depending on where the best stores and most bees are. It might be possible to start the second box before the first batch have been completed but I have not yet tried it.

Steve

[nemphlar]

Interesting link Prakel they all agree a box jammed full of bees is a must. Manipulating the Harden box to have bees crammed as a starter sounds to be worth a try. Just need to lash up a cloake board.
Bee jazz I'm not sure I fully understand the key elements of my success or failure using BH. I have drawer full of Swiss, Chinese and 00 brushes for grafting, still not comfortable with any, technique remains poor, eyesight isn't improving either.

[prakel]

I think that comparative strength is far more important than actual size. The first season that I used the Lyson miniplus hives was a teething-problem-nightmare with half of them being allowed to get too congested and then putting up (very nice looking) swarm cells. The first couple got the jump on me much to the annoyance of fellow allotment holders. These weren't scrub cells by any stretch of the imagination but rather, well provisioned examples which I'd have been more than pleased to have started myself. This really did teach me that bee density is a very important aspect when it comes to getting good cells.

[mbc]

I think that comparative strength is far more important than actual size. The first season that I used the Lyson miniplus hives was a teething-problem-nightmare with half of them being allowed to get too congested and then putting up (very nice looking) swarm cells. The first couple got the jump on me much to the annoyance of fellow allotment holders. These weren't scrub cells by any stretch of the imagination but rather, well provisioned examples which I'd have been more than pleased to have started myself. This really did teach me that bee density is a very important aspect when it comes to getting good cells.

Some research to back your thoughts up prakel:
From BREEDING SUPER BEES by Steve Tabor page 23
"The number of bees needed to raise a good queen.
Liu (1975) was able to raise a queen on a diet of sufficient pollen, honey and water by using 400 mixed-age worker bees. Colonies with average queens laying 1200 to 1500 eggs per day would have several thousands of bees of the proper age (4 to 10 days of age). This means that great populations of bees in the queen-rearing colony are not necessary."

[prakel]

That's a book that's on my list for future purchase, I did have a copy some years back but it was lost with many others in a house move. Ron Brown speculated in his booklet on apidea management that it may be possible for an apidea to raise one or two good cells, but I don't remember the full discussion or it's exact context -whether he was referring to swarming or emergency.