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Thread: Top bar hives

  1. #61
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    As a current enthusiast for wild comb, I'm intrigued - what's brought you back to using foundation, and are you going to give up wild comb completely?
    A few things. There's a high cost involved in running colonies on natural comb. I've read plenty of clear cut statements about bees building natural comb quicker than they pull foundation out, well, I've got a real time comparison going on at the moment and there's absolutely no doubt that they're choosing the foundation in preference to the empty frames and, when they do get to working both together they complete the foundation sooner.

    The Beekeeper's Quarterly reprinted an article by Murray McGreggor a few years ago (was originally a post on Bee-L I believe) where he went into some detail regards "Drawn Comb, Foundation or Starter Strips -which method gives the best honey yields?". BKQ No 94 Dec 2008. Good reading.

    There's also a pdf Low Cost Foundation by by K S Aidoo and R J Paxton. which comes to a similar conclusion that's well worth reading:
    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...t7udhSnQ5DKJlA

    Another cost is that of keeping way too many drones on the wing. Once a colony is established on natural comb it seems to produce drones beyond it's needs. Why this is I really couldn't say. 20% drone comb in natural nests is the figure normally touted as 'right'. 20% allows for a lot of drones in a modified dadant hive. I've not measured the comb (edit: for drone cell percentage although I may now do so as I pull the old combs) or counted the bodies but I can see quite clearly that there are too many for my liking. There's a suggestion that quality surpasses quantity, again, I don't know if this is right but it makes a lot of sense to me.

    My use of natural comb started as an enforced money saving strategy, I don't regret the experience one bit as it's certainly opened my eyes to a few things and yes, I will still use some natural comb although I doubt that it'll have a prominent place in our main hives. I do have a few ideas which I'd like to play around with, but that's for the future. What should be remembered though is that in my opinion I would be a lot further forward than I am if I'd had regular access to foundation.

    None of this should be read to mean that I think natural comb colonies don't have a place in beekeeping it's just not the right way forward for myself.
    Last edited by prakel; 24-05-2015 at 10:19 PM.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I tend to put a couple of drone combs in every hive to try and stop them drawing drone cells wherever there is a little gap.
    I take your point though Prakel as they often draw drone comb when I was hoping they would draw worker cells.
    It's all about timing and how many drones they already have. I am still trying to get a handle on the cell size they draw with natural comb.

  3. #63
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    5.1mm was the smallest mine ever got to -measured on the three lines to try and get a more accurate reading than the common measurement across one line of cells. I'm no fan of the 'small bees are better' school of thought -I prefer the heavyweights motto...'a good big one beats a good little one'.

    I suppose I'll have to increase the varroa treatments now that I'm using foundation again.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prakel View Post

    I suppose I'll have to increase the varroa treatments now that I'm using foundation again.
    Michael Bush will be watching over you!

  5. #65
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Michael Bush will be watching over you!
    Don't forget the British Mike B'. I rate them as highly as each other.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    The British Mike B is not a small cell devotee though, more of a prolific swarm catcher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    @ MAAF
    I remember you writing that you were putting frames to replace the top bars in your Warré(s). So, have you totally abandoned them now? I find the Warré good for heat retention. Or are you referring only to your horizontal tbh?

    I read a lot that top bar hives give us calm bees that are much less agressive because of less tinkering with the hive. I have found (though with only one Warré I can't extrapolate) that because the bees are rarely visited, when they are they seem to resent it, and treat me much more badly then my Dadant bees .
    Sorry for the delay in replying.

    My experience is that bees in TBHs can be very aggressive if they are the wrong type of bee. Just like any other.

    The good news when you open up a TBH, you only open two frames at most at a time (one for space, one to inspect) so less heat loss and fewer upset bees.

    The bad news if if you want to inspect thoroughly, you have to move a LOT of bars..

    The bees I have in TBHs are no more docile than teh same bees in jumbo langs.

    BUT INSPECTION is much more difficult..


    I have just had an outbreak of AFB and it's wiped out ALL my TBHs. I have not yet decided but I may probably not refill them and stick to langs.

    Of my 2 langs + 1 lang nuc, one was infected (last frame 1 cell.)

    I need to refill my petrol can. Killing bees in TBHs with petrol is very messy.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Bloody hell. That's bad news MAAF.
    Have you had AFB in your area recently?

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that. Bummer.

    I would have imagined that TBHs are less likely to get AFB as swapping combs in is less easy.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Bloody hell. That's bad news MAAF.
    Have you had AFB in your area recently?
    There was a case late last year within 0.5miles (or less). Apparently abandoned with lots of bees and infection immediately evident on inspection - so bad...

    Our Association Apiary had 3 infected colonies spring last year.

    Swapping combs on TBHs is easy if you use a comb stand.. ..

    Lots of hives round here apparently not on Beebase..

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