How long to keep queen in cage?

[beejazz]

I have a 2011 queen, no signs of swarming this year, although I demarreed twice when attempting grafting on that hive. It is the first hive to kick out their drones, I would be tempted to leave the queen to see if the bees try to supercede her next year, or this autumn? except for the hive is the nastiest/stickiest hive to deal with. I'm a bit scared of it, have to say! So will requeen soon. I have a lovely new mated queen ready in an apidea, and she's big! After reading Ruary and Jon's comments I will let her lay for 3 weeks? and then think about re-queening, probably into a nuc first , just to be on the safe side.

[Jon]

think about re-queening, probably into a nuc first , just to be on the safe side.

It makes sense to start up a nuc as you have a better percentage chance of queen acceptance.
You can then build up the nuc and requeen a colony after removing its queen and combining via newspaper.

[beejazz]

Yes that's the plan. Allow the queen to lay in the apidea for a couple of weeks more, then build up the queen introduction nuc, and unite after the apiguard is finished. That way there will be less bees to deal with when looking through the hive for the queen.

[The Drone Ranger]

What are the chances that a daughter queen (who's mother produced a bad tempered hive) can produce a hive of good tempered bees ?
Could the good honey gathering and brood laying plus low swarming tendency be worth giving it a try?

[prakel]

What are the chances that a daughter queen (who's mother produced a bad tempered hive) can produce a hive of good tempered bees ?
Could the good honey gathering and brood laying plus low swarming tendency be worth giving it a try?

I'd say the chances are quite good actually but you've got to be pretty ruthless regards culling the ones which don't measure up temper wise. I've got a couple of real gentle colonies which are headed by daughters of a notoriously bad lot and it's not the first time this has happened. If we go down the road of raising local mongrels from what we already have there may not be any other option but to give it a go. But it can seem like a long road to walk at times and the temptation to buy in an already improved queen for a couple of years respite becomes very tempting.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Prakel
That's interesting you have been able to do this
From what I have read good temper is relatively easy to fix in a strain of bees
Hygienic behaviour the most difficult
Honey gathering surplus and low swarming somewhere in the middle
It seems a shame to lose some good genetics if there is a chance of improving that strain by breeding in better temper

[prakel]

From what I have read good temper is relatively easy to fix in a strain of bees

I've heard that too

I won't derail this thread as it's a good 'ne but I will say that the queens I referred to are genuinely 'shirt sleeve' bees whereas their mother was a real bruiser. I didn't refer to her colony as notorious for no reason. In the end the only way I could get control (due to the very public location of the colony) without mass slaughter was to pay a 5am visit with a smoker full of heavy paper soaked in a mixture of saltpetre -well no, actually it was potassium nitrate. You'll understand the distinction if you try to purchase a small quantity online; 'saltpeter' is sold to witches for use in spells or some such thing and commands a premium price!!! Anyway that was drastic action in response to a living nightmare.

[The Drone Ranger]

I've mentioned the dreaded No10 elsewhere
That hive was allowed to get very big gathering honey
I paid the price splitting it up and requeening the Nucs

[prakel]

I've mentioned the dreaded No10 elsewhere
That hive was allowed to go rampant while gathering honey
I paid the price splitting it up and requeening the Nucs
I didn't keep the queen they were good honey getters but that was their only good point

Similar, although gassing allowed removal of the queen and the division into nucs without paying the price but they were then left to raise their own queens on the basis that they often do come good.

I can of course see how this approach wouldn't suit a lot of people for all sorts of reasons, nor am I advising anyone else to start burning nitrates...

[Blackcavebees]

I've got a colony like that! Great for honey gathering but you just can't work with them. Picked 54 stings out of my suit the other week after a partial inspection, smoke does little to help, was wondering about tear gas? What's the story with nitrates?

They are one of the reasons I joined Jon's queen rearing group. I have one colony of blacks hardly bother when i go through them, so its requeening the rest for a quieter life