How long to keep queen in cage?

[Blackcavebees]

Been having great fun lately with Jon and the guys at the Belfast Queen rearing group. Monday night caged two lovely AMM queens from my mating nucs. Thunder, lightning, heavy rain yesterday. Tried to make up nucs this morning and got totally pasted, even stung on fingers through nirilite over leather gauntlets and feeling like the cartoon character with the throbbing fingers. Chased out of the apiary.
Weather here is very close, and looks like more of the same tomorrow.

Q is how long can my queens stay in the cage out of the hive without detriment? One has 2 attendants, one has one attendant, both have candy and drops of water morning and evening. Currently sitting in a shady corner of the living room, no CH.

Advice appreciated.

[Jon]

Put in another couple of attendants meanwhile.
Your queen will not last long after the last attendant dies.
You can collect a few in a jar at the entrance of a hive or taken from an apidea. Insert them one by one into the cage.
Spray them with water if you have difficulty picking them up.
Young bees are better if you can get them.
It is giving rain for the rest of today and all day tomorrow.

It is best to make up the nucs before you take the queens out of the apideas!

[Blackcavebees]

Break in the rain at 11pm tonight, out with torch, got some from supers, 2 extra into each and one flying round living room, wife not amused :-) will have another go tomorrow at the nucs, hopefully no thunder. Fingers still throbing though.

[Blackcavebees]

Now that's the usual weather we're used to. Out at out-apiary by 8am, nucs made up just before the down pour started again. Queens added at lunchtime, everything "looks" and sounds ok. What's the plan? Just leave them for a week or so? Or open in couple of days to make sure queen is out of cages? They have 1 full frame stores and brood frames have honey arch

[Jon]

Are the plastic tabs open yet?
If not check in 24 hours and if the bees seem reasonably calm with the cage,open the tab.
Check again 2 days later as the fondant sometimes goes hard and the queen will still be in the cage.
If so, carefully poke a small hole in the fondant not big enough for the queen to get out.
Replace the cage and she should be out shortly.
When you are working with the cage, be careful not to accidentally pop off the plastic releasing the queen as she might fly off.

[Ruary]

don't forget to check within a week for Queen cells.

As the queen is only coming into lay she will not be laying a full quota and the workers might think she is going off lay and supersede her.

Been there done that so I read the book.

[Jon]

Taking queens too early from Apideas can also lead to rejection or early supersedure.
The Rhodes and Denny paper I mentioned before states that 28-35 days from emergence is optimal before removing a queen for introduction.
I have been urging group members to leave the queens to lay in the apideas for at least two weeks if possible, at a minimum 10 days until the first brood is sealed.
Action is needed within 3 weeks as the apidea population will triple at that point when the first brood hatches.
I find that if a queen spends several days in the introduction cage there will invariably be sealed queen cells in the box and the queen rarely tears these down when she gets out of the cage.
The advice to check for queen cells a few days after the queen is out of the cage is canny enough.

[Blackcavebees]

These queens removed 25 days after emergence. Quickly mated due to good weather, laying after 11 days. Maybe leave next batch a tad longer to be sure.

[beejazz]

Well, well, I live and learn! That explains it then! So maybe my little grafted queen is good, and not a scrubbish queen the bees are trying to supercede. I left her long enough in the apidea, 6 weeks at least, maybe she was too long in the cage, or not enough space to lay in the nuc. I removed the capped cells from the nuc a few days ago. If the bees persist in making cells should I suppose she's no good?

[Jon]

Sometimes they settle down and stop trying to supersede a new queen after a few weeks.
It is possible she has a genuine problem in which case the bees will make cells as fast as you remove them.
Nosema and virus, especially DWV, have also been linked to early supersedure of queens.

Since I started leaving queens longer in the apideas I hardly see any early supersedure.

I had a genuine supersedure case a couple of weeks ago with a queen in her 4th season.
I came across the two queens in the box and the daughter was laying so I removed the old queen to a nuc where she is still laying.
Her nuc will attempt to supersede her again shortly.