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Thread: Wax

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Default Wax

    Does anybody know why home-made wax sheets are so much more brittle than bought foundation? I was told about this on the wax workshop at Thornes earlier this year and have now experienced it again.

    I read somewhere that bees don't really care about the cell imprints on their foundation sheets and that they'll just as well use a plain sheet of wax - so I tried it, but I don't think my bees are impressed. I've now cut them down to strips and will see if they prefer that.

    Kitta

    IMG_4636.jpgIMG_4641.jpg

  2. #2

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    I once spoke about this to a foundation manufacturer here in Shamrockshire. This occurred years ago and complete recall of what was said is now impossible, but the gist of the conversation was that the stretching and rolling to which commercially manufactured foundation was subjected, made it less brittle than that which was cast.
    Last edited by Dark Bee; 29-06-2013 at 07:42 PM.

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    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Bee View Post
    the stretching and rolling to which commercially manufactured foundation was subjected; made it less brittle than that which was cast.
    This is what I have heard.
    The rolling out gives the wax a homogenious crystallisation. It should also be laminated at a temperature that is high enough for it to be malleable, but low enough for it to have a lower rigidity for the same resistance.

  4. #4

    Default Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Bee View Post
    I once spoke about this to a foundation manufacturer here in Shamrockshire. This occurred years ago and complete recall of what was said is now impossible, but the gist of the conversation was that the stretching and rolling to which commercially manufactured foundation was subjected; made it less brittle than that which was cast.
    I can verify this
    A guy from Bronte country used to lecture on handling wax , from candles through to show wax!
    He used to demonstrate the difference between. Cast foundation and rolled foundation, the cast variety was inferior to the to the rolled variety due to the fact that it was brittle!
    Peter Hewitt was his name, I doubt his still being on the lecture circuit but a very interesting guy indeed!
    VM


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    Thanks all. That's interesting. I wonder whether feeding a home-made sheet of wax through a mangle (or a few times through a mangle) might improve its suppleness - but then, Chris also mentioned that it should be at the right temperature, and that might be more difficult.

    What did you mean with 'laminated', Chris? Are the sheets made up of several sheets pressed together?

    Kitta

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    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifera Crofter View Post
    What did you mean with 'laminated', Chris? Are the sheets made up of several sheets pressed together?
    Kitta
    No, it means I've been over here too long.* Laminer* in french means to pass something between 2 rollers to make it flatter. I don't know what laminate originally meant in English before Formica arrived but i obviously did a bad translation.
    Don't worry too much about the temperature being exact. The least brittle wax comes from cold rolling. It just has to be warm enough to be able to pass it through the wringer.

    As for cell imprints, when I used foundation,it was always for worker sized cells. This didn't stop the bees making drone size cells for drones or honey. Also, cell alignment often changed according to their needs. The problem is it gives the bees more work, as they must first undo the foundation size imprint to build what they want. I think you'll get better results with a strip than a full sheet.Another comment on your photo, is that you haven't left any gap between the frame and the wax.Look at a frame that the bees have built out-there are gaps. I believe I read that this is for helping to communicate - something to do with vibrations.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................Look at a frame that the bees have built out-there are gaps. I believe I read that this is for helping to communicate - something to do with vibrations.
    I recall reading something very similar - it was research done by Dr. Francis Ratneiks or possibly by one of his doctoral or post doctoral students.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    DB. Not sure about Ratnieks but Jurgen Tautz certainly discussed that in his 'Biology of a Superorganism' book

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    Senior Member Mellifera Crofter's Avatar
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    I took this photo a few days ago. They've started to draw out the strip foundation. Lots of opportunities for communication gaps there. So far, they're still ignoring whole frames of home-made foundation and I'm busy replacing those with strips or bought foundation.

    Strip of home-made foundation.jpg

  10. #10
    Senior Member chris's Avatar
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    Why do you think they have so far ignored the wax above where they have started drawing out? Because they don't need it?

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