Queen rearing pics

[mbc]

So do you Mini Plus users aspire to keep most of them them ticking over overwinter, and if so do they build in spring at the right time to split and insert queen cells? Is that how you manage the issue of different frame sizes, and minimise the need to restock them with more bees in spring?
Bigger mating boxes seem to mean that less regular visits are needed.

I'm still learning with the mini plus hives, being in my second season with them and only this one with a reasonable number. This spring I only had one mini plus make it through (50% loss of the ones I tried to overwinter 12/13) and this one survivor was enough to stock lots of other nucs with a frame of unsealed brood to go along with a cupfull of bees. Some of the mini plus hives were also started with a cupfull of bees and a ripe cell, the same quantity of bees as I use for apideas and kielers-the difference being, when a mini plus works straight away and the queen gets going there is much more time and more beneficial expansion that the embryonic colony can get through before it needs any attention.
I imagine when I stop expanding their numbers that a bit of judicious shaking and collecting of adult bees will be needed to avoid the little boxes from becoming overcrowded, but this will be a lot less immediately pressing than with any of the smaller mating nucs.
I cannot see any reason to leave any of the boxes unoccupied at the end of the season when the last round of harvesting is done, I have one three high at the moment, I must strap it somehow before the autumn gales blow it over.

[Jon]

I roughly calculated twas about the same comb area as 8 national brood frames.

Near as dammit a full colony then!
Do you not think with that amount of bees it would be simpler to work on standard brood frames rather than smaller mating nuc type frames?
You could set up a 4 frame nuc with a divider and an separate entrance at each end and double it up in winter to get the same result.

[mbc]

Near as dammit a full colony then!
Do you not think with that amount of bees it would be simpler to work on standard brood frames rather than smaller mating nuc type frames?
You could set up a 4 frame nuc with a divider and an separate entrance at each end and double it up in winter to get the same result.

With the divider in and a tall, narrow and well insulated space, only a cupfull of bees is needed to get them going, same as an apidea. Each frame of brood taken from production colonies is lost honey whereas it would be difficult to notice a drop at all with only shaking a few cupfulls of bees from a production colony. I do have lots of split national boxes which I use to mate queens and start nucs, but I'm finding it more advantageous to leave these till last so as not to split up good colonies early on.
Its always a difficult decision to go with yet another frame size but after trying one I bought cheap on ebay I havent had much doubt that this is the format I want to mate my queens with. The price helps, they are very reasonable from Abelo.

[fatshark]

I'm thinking about similar things Gavin ... I tend to run 8-10 Kielers, stocking them in the spring and overwintering them as doubles if possible. However, stocking them early enough for queen rearing makes quite a dent in a couple of colonies. Secondly, as I've found out this year, removing the queens at 28-35 days (I think that's from emergence, Jon will be along to correct me ... my Excel spreadsheet automagically tells me when to start another round of grafting and move the queens along) means the Kielers never build up very strongly. Next year I'm going to try 3 frame mating hives, splitting a full colony 3-4 ways in the spring and using them for a succession of queens. I've done this for my last round of queen rearing this year ... splitting the colony was a lot less work than populating the mini-nucs and you have the advantage of being able to see the queen lay up a reasonable slab of brood (hopefully!). If strong enough late on they should overwinter OK.

I've posted on another thread on splitting a MB Langstroth poly nuc into two three frame nucs ... these seem to be working pretty well so far.

I see the point by Jon on working on standard sized frames. I see this as a real advantage. You can swap them out or boost them as required. For remote mating sites this might be a real advantage, as well as the 'flexibility' hinted at by mbc in terms of avoiding overcrowding and - presumably - running critically low on stores.

[Jon]

The thing is, all forms of mini nuc work to get queens mated.
The management and checking interval is probably more critical than whatever one you chose.
They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
Keilers and Swi-bine have several design faults but are inexpensive.

I notice in the queen rearing group that some people have far more success than others even though everyone starts with queen cells grafted from the same queen.
Some check far too often, others virtually abandon them.
Some put in far too many bees leading to absconding and others arrive with about 50 bees in them so the cell is chilled and the queen does not emerge.
If I have queens a week or more from emergence and there is a perfect mating day, I check the apideas 2-3 days later and get the excluders on the front if eggs are present.

[mbc]

The thing is, all forms of mini nuc work to get queens mated.
The management and checking interval is probably more critical than whatever one you chose.
They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

I couldnt agree more Jon, each of us needs to find what works best for our own systems, each will work, but which one gives the best results for the least amount of effort is what sways my thinking.

[Jon]

Might try one of those double ones next time I am ordering something from Abelo.
I have a couple of swi-bines and have worked with Keilers and don't really like them.
I have also seen a range or home made mating nucs usually made from ply and these work as well but the weight is a real problem.

I am thinking of scaling up quite a bit for next year. I am so used to working with apideas it would take a lot to change my mind.
If it ain't broke.... is near the top of my list of favourite sayings!

Apideas can be bought for about £20 so selling one queen covers the cost.
Same applies to any of them I suppose.
I find it strange that more associations are not geared up to help members rear a few queens.

[prakel]

So do you Mini Plus users aspire to keep most of them them ticking over overwinter, and if so do they build in spring at the right time to split and insert queen cells? Is that how you manage the issue of different frame sizes, and minimise the need to restock them with more bees in spring?

Been mulling over such issues as we may move to a more distant mating site next year to improve the control of mating. Bigger mating boxes seem to mean that less regular visits are needed.

I'm no expert by any means but I've been using these boxes since Thornes first listed them in their catalogue, probably 6 or 7 years ago -I'd have to check receipts to be sure. In that time I've tried to do just as you enquire; overwinter, split in the Spring etc. I've mentioned the overwintering config and Spring build up before. Although I originally used two boxes I now find that I can easily overwinter single boxes here on the South coast (that even includes my economy wood ones which are designed to take mini-plus frames) BUT, they need a second box in the Spring to accommodate them until new cells are available -I don't see much point in liquidating good family units for the sake of using a queen in April (unless it's to replace a failing one in an otherwise good colony) so I suppose that there's debatable value in single box wintering in more northerly areas where the double box is likely more viable. Answer to your question Gavin, yes they do build up well. Oh, by the way, having had some transport issues this year I can say with some personal knowledge that they travel well on local buses too...

[gavin]

Damian at Abelo has just let me know that they have the Mini Plus back in stock. £32 for the two mating colonies in one nucleus box.

http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/mini-bee...s-mating-hive/

G.

[mbc]

Damian at Abelo has just let me know that they have the Mini Plus back in stock. £32 for the two mating colonies in one nucleus box.

http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/mini-bee...s-mating-hive/

G.

Shhh ! they're all mine....my preciousssss