Supply of Varroa free Queens

[Floyd]

I will continue this thread as all the information is in my original message.

The weather here has been appalling and looks likly to continue. I need to unite hives 2/3 with hive 1 ASAP as I am away on Friday, but will need to go through hive 2 to find the DLQ. Is it possible to unite 2 hives in one go. I am not concerned about the possibility of hive 2's brood chilling as it the DLQ hive, but would like to go through both hives just in case.

Many thanks in advance.

[fatshark]

You can certainly unite three into one ... it's supposed to reduce fighting that way. Others may suggest alternative approaches but you should be able to spray them gently with scented water and just chuck them altogether into a single box.

You could risk shaking them out through a QE to avoid having to find the DLQ if time was really short.

[COVENANTER]

hi i found a company online called bs bee suppliers .i found them by accident .i lost my queen and was constantly getting told sorry we are sold out or we charge 100 pounds for mated queens. I contacted bs bees and less than 48 hours later a mated queen arrived.for the sum of 34 pounds postage paid So why not give them a try . they have carnolians and buckfast in stock

[Jon]

The OP is in a varroa free area and wants to source from a varroa free area to avoid the risk of introducing varroa.
Queens available at the moment will be imports rather than local.

[Trog]

From what I've heard of this winter's losses, I see little point in importing. Winters like the one we've just had - lasting from October to mid-May - really sort out the wheat from the chaff and it's the local bees which have done best.

[fatshark]

From reports I heard today I think about £200,000 of (packaged) bees have just been imported in the last couple of days.

Even down here in the balmy Midlands - all of 7^oC today - the local bees appear to have fared better. The problem now is meeting demand and, with the weather warming, this far-outstrips supply before queen rearing can properly start. I think there is a compelling case to overwinter queens efficiently for early nucs and suspect this might be a better way than overwintering complete nucs (on the basis that full hives build up faster than nucs from an early start).

To go back to the last point made by Jon ... if the OP only wants Varroa free, rather than native/black/Amm and Varroa free, then surely that could be achieved by careful visual inspection? Ditch the attendants and get the jewellers loupe out to scrutinise the queen. I'm pretty sure that phoretic mites are adult females and therefore visible ... not ideal I know, but a possible solution.

[The Drone Ranger]

Buying a nuc with 4 frames of brood , this years queen, and available in the May is what people a led to expect, but is that possible in Scotland ?

[prakel]

From what I've heard of this winter's losses, I see little point in importing. Winters like the one we've just had - lasting from October to mid-May - really sort out the wheat from the chaff and it's the local bees which have done best.

But most reports which I've read seem to be suggesting that bad mating of British bred queens during the 2012 Summer is one of the prime drivers for the mass losses which would suggest that imported bees (mated in a more stable environment) might actually be the only way to continue keeping bees in the British Isles in future.

Of course, if one or more of the big guys that have suffered mass losses were to come forward and point the finger to some other reason then we might be able to get a different perspective on what's happening.

[Jon]

It is the commercial beekeepers who seem to have the heaviest losses and they are the main users of imported queens and packages - and are restocking again with imported queens and packages.
If the losses are the same next winter will they be able to go cap in hand for another handout - in order to restock with imported queens and packages.
Funny Logic and it is taxpayers money funding this.
Hardly a sustainable business model.

Those of us who work with native stock get bombarded with false propaganda about how other races are more gentle, more productive, less prone to chalk brood bla bla bla.

But most reports which I've read seem to be suggesting that bad mating of British bred queens during the 2012 Summer is one of the prime drivers for the mass losses

Hi prakel. I lost a lot of nucs headed by 2012 mated queens but the problem was not poor mating. None had turned drone layer and the brood pattern in the autumn was fine. No supersedure attempts either which would have been a sure sign.
The problem as I see it was the relentless poor weather from June, low temperatures reducing the effectiveness of thymol treatments, no ivy pollen in the autumn followed by a winter far longer than usual.
My losses were due to spring dwindle. There were not enough bees produced in the autumn and the bees in the overwintering clusters did not live long enough.
When a nuc or a colony get down to less than 3 frames it is usually on the way out and is very susceptible to either isolation starvation of freezing if there are several days of sub zero weather in the spring.

Buying a nuc with 4 frames of brood , this years queen, and available in the May is what people a led to expect, but is that possible in Scotland ?

I would say you could get queens mated the odd year but most of the time the weather will be against you.
I rarely have any queens mated before June.
This year I wont even be starting grafting until June so the first queens will be late June or early July.

[prakel]

Hi prakel. I lost a lot of nucs headed by 2012 mated queens but the problem was not poor mating. None had turned drone layer and the brood pattern in the autumn was fine. No supersedure attempts either which would have been a sure sign.
The problem as I see it was the relentless poor weather from June, low temperatures reducing the effectiveness of thymol treatments, no ivy pollen in the autumn followed by a winter far longer than usual.
My losses were due to spring dwindle. There were not enough bees produced in the autumn and the bees in the overwintering clusters did not live long enough.
When a nuc or a colony get down to less than 3 frames it is usually on the way out and is very susceptible to either isolation starvation of freezing if there are several days of sub zero weather in the spring.

Jon, pretty much ties in with some of what I've read from Mr.McG on the big forum -including his prediction from the end of last summer.

Still begs the question, is there truly a race of bees which is actually more adapted than any other to the weather patterns which we're getting NOW as opposed to 100 or even 50 years ago. It's a huge subject, not helped I think, by the constant blame being put on poor matings (and as you know there have been quite a few such claims on the net).

I of course, in the balmy South, with my highly mongrelized stock can only experience the anguish of these losses through reading of other's plight....

Re the three frame comment; very important point when building nucs which are both stable units and quick off the marks too.

I would say you could get queens mated the odd year but most of the time the weather will be against you.
I rarely have any queens mated before June.
This year I wont even be starting grafting until June so the first queens will be late June or early July.

People need re educating IF the goal is to stop the imports. Either wait for tested June/July nucs or go for overwintered ones. I liked the scheme outlined by someone the other week (poss Fatshark but apologies if it was somebody else) where new breeding group members are encouraged to build their own nuc -from scratch through their first Summer and to then overwinter it so that they've got a head start the following year.

Local associations could perhaps be the ideal source of such education -especially if they themselves are taking an anti import stance. But, it's pretty much all hot air unless they actually put something in place for the new members and no, getting a couple of the old timers to supply nucs or handing out swarms which someone else has caught (absolute minimum -make the new beekeeper go and help catch it) isn't a constructive way forward for a club which is preaching from the anti import/sustainable beekeeping agenda.

Just a little rant -not aimed at anyone.